The Project: Health Wellness and Psychology

Psyched with Dr.D: Dr. Andrew Hahn clinical psychologist and founder of Guided Self Healing (GSH), an energy psychospiritual mindbody framework for healing our deepest trauma.

November 12, 2020 Mahdi Al Oun, Dr.Juliet Dinkha, Dr. Andrew Hahn Season 1 Episode 206
The Project: Health Wellness and Psychology
Psyched with Dr.D: Dr. Andrew Hahn clinical psychologist and founder of Guided Self Healing (GSH), an energy psychospiritual mindbody framework for healing our deepest trauma.
The Project: Health Wellness and Psychology
Psyched with Dr.D: Dr. Andrew Hahn clinical psychologist and founder of Guided Self Healing (GSH), an energy psychospiritual mindbody framework for healing our deepest trauma.
Nov 12, 2020 Season 1 Episode 206
Mahdi Al Oun, Dr.Juliet Dinkha, Dr. Andrew Hahn

Dr. Andrew Hahn is a licensed clinical psychologist and founder of Guided Self Healing (GSH), an energy psychospiritual mindbody framework for healing our deepest trauma. 

He received his B.A. from Harvard University and his Doctorate in Clinical Psychology from Hahnemann University. 

A call for greater understanding beyond the traditional Western paradigms led him to the worlds of Buddhist and Eastern Psychology; Mystery Trainings; and Depth, Archetypal and Spiritual Psychology.

On the podcast, he talks about how to overcome any sort of challenges, whether it’s physical (like chronic pain, auto-immune), mental (like anxiety) or emotional (like depression).

Support the show (

Show Notes Transcript

Dr. Andrew Hahn is a licensed clinical psychologist and founder of Guided Self Healing (GSH), an energy psychospiritual mindbody framework for healing our deepest trauma. 

He received his B.A. from Harvard University and his Doctorate in Clinical Psychology from Hahnemann University. 

A call for greater understanding beyond the traditional Western paradigms led him to the worlds of Buddhist and Eastern Psychology; Mystery Trainings; and Depth, Archetypal and Spiritual Psychology.

On the podcast, he talks about how to overcome any sort of challenges, whether it’s physical (like chronic pain, auto-immune), mental (like anxiety) or emotional (like depression).

Support the show (


Episode - Dr. Andy

Wed, 11/11 7:03AM • 1:16:44


people, called, find, depression, life, problem, happened, story, feel, symptoms, energy, healing, judith, years, question, session, trauma, training, ritual abuse, psychologist



You are now listening to the project quake project quake project where we stop at nothing to bring you the right backs on health, fitness and psychology, featuring some of the world's most experienced professionals. So you can learn and play with your hosts, make them dirty, and maybe



he might come in with for profit, he might have loud reactions to solve, he might have obsessive compulsive disorder and say I have to make everything perfect, he might have all kinds of problems with leadership. So whenever he gets put into a place of leadership, he sabotages himself. And what I would find is no, those are three separate things, you're sabotaging yourself, you're OCD and your reactions to loud songs are really all unfolded into one story where you were a leader of soldiers and you weren't paying enough attention, and you brought them into an ambush and watch them all died. And if we could take care of that, and that was the only reason you had those symptoms, believe it or not, in 30 minutes, they would all just go away.



Maybe there's some people that don't want to get rid of their symptoms. There are people that come to me and say, Well, I'm depressed, I want you to help me get over my depression. But then even if you try to intervene in whichever way that you can you feel like some people are just not ready or feel like this is like a safety haven. Maybe they've been like this for a while. There's a lot of reasons. Sometimes people think that they are ready for this type of intervention. And they're not.



I see two screens, I see conventional, I see unconventional, seeing this, do you get a lot of hate in the field from other psychologists, no typical doctor will incorporate into healing individuals, which I think is wrong, because there have been practices for thousands of years that have shown to work. All this and more in today's episode. Hey, everybody, welcome to the project. And we are welcoming Dr. Andrew Han all the way from the United States to talk about stuff that I'm being introduced to for the first time and I can't wait to hear about all this. You've got an extensive background, you got your ba from Harvard, your clinical psychologist. So Dr. Andrew, welcome to the show.



Thank you so much, Maddy. And thank you, Julia, thank you for inviting me, this is like a joy. And to be able to share this work with you guys is just a pleasure and a total passion. So I'm so psyched.



I'm very psyched, because it's so nice to have a clinical psychologist with me on this show. Usually, we haven't really had a lot of clinical psychology, we have them from different background. Also you have IDs, it's an IRS ID. So I love it, people are so clinically focused, and I think that differentiates us from, you know, people that have a PhD, but we can, you know, talk about that later. So I know that you are your background is in clinical psychology. And I know that you were trained, as you know, like the traditional model that Psy DS we get trained in. But I know that after that you decided to have a little bit more of a non traditional view, which is like, that's why you started the life centered therapy. So we are very, very interested in hearing that because we are in the Middle East. And I think a lot of people, at least my experience here people look for non traditional, not the psychoanalytic and, you know, they want to look for something that is healing that is has includes religion, that can include ways where they can heal their mind and their body at the same time. So I'm very, very excited to hear what you have to share.



Thanks, I'm very excited to share it with you, and to have a really great conversation about it. So this is wonderful.



I'll definitely throw out the jock questions, more of the athlete on the show that you know, does CrossFit, play baseball, you know, growing up and all the other sports? You know, I was just saying it's funny, because like I was saying before the show, you know, like this is something that I haven't been introduced to and when I have been introduced to that, you know, being a male in our society, it's kind of like, there's none of that, you know, you eat nails, and you get back out on the field. And that's it. There's no crying in baseball. So, you know, it's really cool. And I think all the athletes that listened to the show can benefit from guided self healing, especially with all the issues and injuries we go through throughout the year. And I'm sure a lot of that is related to the mental aspects of our life and the daily stressors that we go through.



Well, I think that's true. And I know about eating nails to accept it was I gave up baseball for tennis, but my nails were soccer. So where are your football but our soccer after I quit football? Because I was smaller at that point. Faster, but smaller, but you can run but you can't hide sometimes. Yeah, I'll be happy to talk about that.



It's tough growing up as a guy, you know, being a smaller individual. I mean, there's a lot of trauma on pack with that, you know, I mean, I'm a small guy, I'm five, seven. You know, I've always been the shorter guy on the field and, you know, gotten pushed around here and there and you always got something to prove one of my buddies is called short man syndrome. So I'm sure if you can help me heal myself from that at this age. You'd be a genius.



Well, I'm not sure I'm a genius, but, you know, maybe we could do something about it together. I don't know if we can get you to grow taller. But you know, I've seen things that are stranger than that. But we certainly could do something where you could say, you know what, it doesn't make any difference. Yeah.



And let's talk about maybe a little bit, why don't you just say a little bit about your background and why you moved into this type of healing. And that way, they audience know how you move from a traditional to, I mean, I call it non traditional, but you know, whatever we call it, but maybe I'll let you to introduce yourself, and then we can go on with our other questions later.



All right. Well, I got a doctorate in clinical psychology even before that had happened, I could had some pretty unusual experiences. But my training was pretty traditional. It was very, very diverse. I had sort of state of the art family systems work and psychoanalytic, I mean everything because I did have a society just like you and I was in Philadelphia, where they had everything. And then I became the training director in a clinic and I became an associate professor in a graduate program, I chose an assistant professor. And that went on for a little while. And I will tell you what really changed things for me. The best I could say is I had an opening. And I started having very unusual experiences I had had them before, things that are generally called sigh experiences in our world, but like non traditional experiences, and they ended with quite an extraordinary thing for me, which is that I was with a friend who had left her world and had gone on spiritual retreat at a place called the Self Realization fellowship. So she was a devotee of Yogananda has, and I just knew I had to go out there, I didn't know why she left she had a really quite extraordinary life. She was the fourth pious person at the UN. And she had done amazing things. And she just dropped it all and went off in spiritual retreat. So I said, I have to go visit her. And the day before I went there, she fell. And she hurt her ankle really, really badly. To the degree that when I got there, she was an awful pain. And her ankle was very swollen, and discolored, and a variety of things like that. But she wanted to take me to the fellowship. So we went there the next day. And we did this really beautiful heart chanting service for about an hour and a half. And then we started to walk around the holy grounds of the fellowship, which is not like Kuwait. It's right on the Pacific Ocean. And it is like stunning and little bit like heaven on earth. And we get to these two benches, and she says, you're gonna have to carry me out of here, because I'm in such bad, she was leaning on me, but she's, I can't walk anymore. So she sat down, and I sort of circumambulated the whole thing and sat down in a place that you wouldn't normally sit, I could see, but I wanted to be able to put her ankle on my leg. So you know, I could, like, you know, support her or something. And the second I sat down, and I was, it's very hard to describe, it'd be like saying I was flooded with the sun, except I knew where the sun was in the sky. And I knew the flooding, energy was much more all over the place. And it wasn't exactly like the sun, but it would be that's the best description I could have, except it was a lot more diffuse and a lot brighter. And I felt this energy coming into me. And I just told her, you know, I said, Put your ankle up here. And I just experienced that energy flowing through me out my hands to her ankle for about five seconds. And then she says, You know, I can read or is, don't you? And this is 1991. I think it was 1991. So that's 30 years ago. And you know, I said, you know, Roshan, I'm a nice boy from Boston, what do I know, from wars? And she said, Are you aware of this pure light that's coming through the crown of your head and into the center of your chest and out your hands to my ankle. And I said, I can't see it the way you are talking about it, but I know it's true. And then we looked down and there was no discoloration, there was no swelling, she got up and she started to walk with no pain. And I said, you know, this is unusual. So at that point, I had to learn, I decided I want to learn everything I could about that. And I started going all over the place and I had fairly extensive training anyway. But then I started going to mystery trainings, and sort of what your training is about opening to the mysteries and hands on healing and a lot of different kinds of spiritual trainings, including past life regression trainings, and the enneagram and all kinds of things for two years. I just sort of went wherever I was led, including I studied a lot about energy and Reiki and Joe Ray and Yogananda and a lot of other things. So my work was already being to move in a very different direction. And about two years after that, I had an acquaintance and she said, You have to go see this woman. She's doing miracles in New Jersey. Now, I live outside of Boston, and I say I could open to miracles anywhere. And my acquaintance told me a story. And it was a very simple story, which was but she couldn't understand it because she just went to this workshop. But the woman was running the workshop was named Judith and Judith had a person there who had such a bad case of asthma. This is what I was told that it was very hard for this woman he bought walk up a few stairs to get to where the workshop was. And then Judith did a session with her and she used somebody thing called muscle testing, which I had never heard of 30 years ago, I don't know if you know muscle testing or kinesiology but I didn't know it, then it's a way of accessing your deepest wisdom through your body. That's what basically muscle testing is. And she did this muscle testing and it said for this woman to tap all over her body while she told the story, that's all my friend could tell me. And at the end of it, Judith muscle tested which just looks like this if you don't know. And so if your arm stays strong, it means he answers yes, if your arm relaxes, it means the answer's no. And it's like you're accessing ci, essentially, you're accessing your deepest knowing. And it said in her nomenclature back 30 years ago, it said that, or this is 27. It said that her asthma was cleared. And so Judith is a strong personality. And she said to this woman lunch, go outside, and walk and see if you feel different. And so she started to walk. Then she started to run, she came back, she was winded, and she told everyone it's not a big surprise. I'm winded because I've been able to run a step in seven years. And I thought that was a pretty wild story. So I wanted to find out what Judas was doing. And I did because Judith it turned out live 10 miles from me. And she had just started training people. And Judith had no background in psychology, but what she was as she was a neurobiologist, and she had learned NLP and from learning NLP, she had learned about tapping, if you know about tapping, like EFT Well, she was one of callahans, Callaghan developed something called Callahan tapping, which became a thought field therapy. And then Gary Griggs came along, and he started something called Emotional Freedom Technique. But Judith was prior to all that, and she had learned from Callahan directly was one of Kellyanne original students. And she put that together with this unbelievably lovely little protocol that she had learned from this Master craniosacral therapist, and she put that together with her own research, her own original research, not as a psychologist about loss and violence traumas. And she came to the conclusion that it didn't matter what the loss was, or the violence that had had the same underlying structure. And she took those three things in the muscle testing and put them together and created a training. And I was the first clinical psychologist who ever took her training. And I knew a lot about a lot of things that she had never heard of, but she knew about muscle testing, and she knew about it, she knew some of the cranial sacral work, and she knew the tapping, and she knew a lot about pattern around loss and violence, and we put it together and we became a team. And in a year, we put together this framework that is the foundation of everything that I do. And let us just say Judith and I are quite different. Judith is training his medical model, very traditional, and she thinks about fixes and cures. And I'm a soul level psychologist, and I think about healing and that everything serves life, and she thinks things need to be fixed. And our worldviews weren't exactly the same. Anyway, I, I started co training with her, I started co teaching with her until we went sort of our separate ways 24 years ago, and then I started training people in what I do. And what I do is really grown since then. But I've seen things like that I've seen things that make the session about the woman with asthma and having it go away in 20 minutes, see one day. And if you told me I would have ever seen them when I was in graduate school, and I mean, like people with chronic pain that not using as touching, have had it for seven years, and it goes away in 20 minutes, or people with chronic major depressions that go away in one session. It doesn't always happen that way. But I've seen it enough, I've seen things or people with Crohn's disease with horrendous symptoms, and it goes away in like three or four sessions. And all of that stuff we have documented qualitatively and but every session is kind of like a miracle. So that's what I do. And I can describe it to you, it's very simple, I can tell you the whole thing of what the foundation of what I do and what I would want your audience to know in about one minute, which is simply why people go to therapy and what therapy is and how it works. And I think anyone, I think it's easy to describe, actually. So if I can have a minute, I think I can tell you the answer to those three questions as far as I'm concerned. And so I think there's only one reason people go to therapy, only one. I don't care why they're going to therapy, they could be going for chronic pain, they could be going for autoimmune disease, they could be going for depression, anxiety, bad relationships, alienation. And if they're suffering, I think everything is the reason they're here is there was something that couldn't be handled and integrated. That's it. Everything is trauma, everything that people suffer about trauma and suffering of the same thing. And trauma simply is something you can handle and integrate. And most people think that it's because it's something too bad, but it could be something that's too good and you can't handle it integrated. And then it comes out in something that looks like addiction, or cravings or something. And there are all kinds of things that people can handle. But typically when we think of trauma, we think of something too bad or too much. All right. That's why people come. So what's therapy, it's simply mastering what couldn't be handled and integrated. That's all it is. And it's very easy to say how to do that and believe it or not, which is that whenever there's a trauma whenever there's something you can't handle it in and integrate in that moment to sensation is born, just like Juliet's born in a moment and the sensation is born in a moment. So if you came into my office and a car backfired, and suddenly you have a panic attack, and I said, Well, what are you feeling in the body right now and you said, My throat closing up, then I would say, you're not having a panic attack Juliet, someone whose name is throat closing up is having a panic attack, your little toe is fine. It's not having a panic attack. So it's not you having a panic attack. But what happens is, when you have a trauma, you will identify with the one who was traumatized, as opposed to the one who was holding or witnessing the one who was traumatized, and then you lose all perspective. And then when, you know 10 years ago, you're in a war right and a bomb goes off at least I'm talking like, you know, actually.



bombs, you know,



exactly apropos. bomb goes off and he can't handle it as a soldier. 10 years later, a car backfires. And it's close enough to the bomb going off that he has a panic attack, and he's on my floor, right. But he's not having a panic attack in 2020. a younger him is having a panic attack in 2010. So and that younger him, it's named, let's say he says when I'm having a panic attack his throat closing up. So I would say throat closing up is an exact equivalent of that person 10 years earlier, who's in the war and can't handle the bomb going on? All right. So it becomes very simple to know how you can heal trauma. If I gave your audience one thing, it would be this, if you can choose to bring all your awareness and focus all your attention on throat closing up. But that's your new name. And whatever comes next is its story. And if you just sit with that story, and you'll stop identifying with throat closing up, and you'll start identifying with the one who's choosing to be with and host and witness throat closing up. And then depending on whether you're if you're visual, you'll see a vision of what happened right? Oh my god, I'm in the war, I can see it. If your auditory you'll get a sense about it like you're reading a novel, but you're the main character. And if you're kinesthetic, you'll end up on my floor like bombs are going off. And it doesn't matter which one it is, because you're choosing to experience the story now as opposed to having it automatically. And as soon as that happens, you're free, because you're no longer and you've mastered it, because you've chose to face it. So what I would say to your audience is a funny thing, which is that every discomfort is the exact equivalent of something that couldn't be handled, and everything that can't be handled, I don't care what you call, it will have an associated discomfort. And all you have to do is choose to bring all your awareness to that discomfort to such a degree that it's like you've become it, and then just find out what it's come to share. I don't care what you think it's come to share any more than if, you know many's in the room, and I say, Juliet's what's happening with Maddie and Maddie says, Why the hell you asked, I can't say, Why are you asking her? Hey, you're



fine. You're fine.



I was sitting here, I'm sitting there, why aren't you talking with me? And I would say the same thing. I talked with body sensations, okay. And I will tell you that having been trained in pretty much everything you can imagine. And if all you did was did that, I think you would be better off than 98 of 98% of the people you go to healing for, because they're going to try to talk about it. And we have a word for that, you know, in our world. It's called trickle down economics. You know, it's like, you start up in the head, and you think you can talk about something, it's irrelevant, almost. But there's an immediacy, as soon as you choose to become the thing face and become the thing that you were afraid to experience. And then you're free. And if you do that with everything, and you will be totally free. And you could say yes to everything. So what I am inviting people into is remembering it's an invitation to remembering something that was split off from you to re integrate it until at the end, and you're entirely free. And anyone could do anything to you. And it wouldn't you there'd be no anxiety, there'd be no judgmental ism, there'd be no comparison. You could just say yes. And that's what we're shooting for. And then one of two things happens, either your symptom goes away, like the asthma or the panic attack, or the chronic fatigue, or the chronic pain or the depression, or your relationship to changes to such a degree that you don't have any anxiety about it anymore. I mean, it's like, okay, it's just one more thing happening in life. It's like, you know, I have a terminal disease, and I'm also wearing a blue sweater. And it's really like that, which doesn't mean you'd be happy about the fact that you were dying, but you wouldn't have anxiety about it. You wouldn't say why did it happen to me and not to somebody else, you wouldn't do any of those things. You just say, That's life. And it's not a big deal. And oh, no more of a not big deal than anything else. So that's the simple version of what I do is if you have something that you're suffering about, scan your body, notice what's going on in your body and choose to focus on it to such a degree and bring your awareness there to such a degree that you become the sensation and then get actively receptive And if you just did that life would be good, way better than talking about something. But then you need to do three things, right. And one of them is you have to find out what the true intention is because you could be seeing a symptom. And I'll tell you what I mean, let's suppose our nice man who is the panic attack, this time, the problem isn't that a bomb went off, and he was a soldier, this time, the problem is that whatever you want to make sense of this, he was a leader of soldiers in World War One, and he's not paying enough attention. And he walks all of his men into an ambush and watches them all by his bombs go off and kill them. Okay? Then his problem is not that allowed sound is there, the problem is that he betrayed a trust. And if I could diagnose that his real problem is that he betrayed a trust and not that he had a reaction to a loud sound, which is only a symptom that was part of the betrayal. What I might be able to do, he might come in, let's look at this for a second, he might come in with four problems, right? He might have loud reactions to sound, right? He might have obsessive compulsive disorder and say, I have to make everything perfect. I don't know why. But I know something terrible is gonna happen if I don't, he might have all kinds of problems with leadership. So whenever he gets put into a place of leadership, he sabotages themselves. And what I would find is no, those are three separate things. You're sabotaging yourself, right? You're OCD and your relation, and your reactions to loud songs, I really all unfolded into one story, where you were a leader of soldiers, and you weren't paying enough attention, and you brought them into an ambush and watch them all die. And if we could take care of that, and that was the only reason you had those symptoms, believe it or not, in 30 minutes, they would all just go away. Because your symptoms are an invitation to remembering something that couldn't be handled and integrated. So all I need to do, I'd say I'm going to get a more elegant, powerful, simple result, if I can find his real problem is betrayal, as opposed to reacting to loud silence. And I can do a whole diagnostic and I can sort of find out what universal stories people are in. If it's not, the thing they came in with is a symptom of something deeper. That's the first thing. The second thing is you have to find out where it originated, because everything after the origination is just a reliving of an echo of the original situation, or my guy who has the panic attack when the power backfires? Well, it won't help me so much to work on his reactions to sound in 2020, I have to find out it originated in 2010. Because after that, everything is just an echo, right and it will echo forever trying to give you a chance, it's like you know, you couldn't handle that when so will keep giving you chances you'll keep drawing it to you. And then you have to find out if that whoever it is that's getting traumatized if they need something other than just sharing their story. And the something may, and I will tell you the most powerful thing you can do with someone is tell them to choose to become the thing that couldn't be integrated by focusing on the body sensation, and then saying, I'm choosing to be with you. I'm witnessing you, I'm holding you or if you're religious, I'm hosting you, right. And I'm remembering you. And by remembering you, I'm integrating myself, I bring back a part of myself that's been split off or frozen. And I bring it back together. So you won't feel like a part of us missing anymore, right? And for doing that I know, hundreds of possibilities. And if all you do is Emotional Freedom Technique, then you'll have everybody tap. If you know EMDR and Emotional Freedom Technique. You'll say I don't know which one's better for you. I'll find out now I could make a guess, about EMDR versus EFT because they do different things. But why should I guess if your deepest wisdom knows. And so how I'm going to find the answer to all of these things is, I'm going to say what you believe doesn't really matter. Because if you know why you had the problem and what to do about it, you wouldn't be coming to see me. So I have to find a deeper part of you that knows that. And then the deeper part of you that knows we all have a name for right. So if you're in China, it's called ci, like Qi Gong or Tai Chi. If you're in Japan, it's called Qi like Reiki. I do not know what it is called in the Aboriginal cultures in the Middle East. But believe me, they have a name for it. The only place that doesn't have a name for it is the rational West that thinks it doesn't exist, which is just a blind spot because they can't accomplish certain things. Right. So really, what we're talking about is your lifeforce and your deepest intuitive knowing it's when you just know something is true, like medicine, you know, I could be in Manhattan right now playing baseball, but for some reason I had to go to Kuwait. And I just know that everyone says maybe you are crazy. You're gonna go to Kuwait. You could be mad. He says, I don't know why, but I know it's true for me and I'm going to Kuwait.



All right. It's funny. I'm from Boston. And that's what all my friends said to me. My mother's originally from Natick I live there, you know, I grew up there. Not sure what part of Massachusetts you're from and I went back to the states for college and all my friends when I said it, yeah, moving back to Kuwait and we continue my education there. Are you insane? You know, it's just post 911, the Iraq war. And they all try to talk me out of it. But you know, it's one of those things. And I hate to cut you off, because I have a question that's been burning inside. And I'm just like, I'm floored by the amount of knowledge I gained in 25 minutes, to be honest with you. But one question I wanted to ask a while ago is, do you believe in through your experience, children don't experience pain like adults, as adults, we overshoot pain, in my opinion, but when my son who's six gets hurt, he's over it, he doesn't need pain meds, he doesn't need any of that. Could that be because they haven't experienced the traumas that we've experienced through our life? So they don't have to self heal at a young age so that, you know, the pain threshold is a lot higher?



I think to some degree, what I would say is yes, to what you're saying, I'd say it's really valid. There may be other reasons to generically speaking, for reasons that we could talk about that have something that what you're saying kids



tend to be more resilient to all things being equal than adults. But of course, you can do things to kids that they can't handle, right? You know, maybe they're dismissing it as pain, and then later on, it gets triggered in another way. So you know,



well, that's, that's for sure. True with, yeah. And then what they would do is, they might say, I don't care something is so painful. And they might say, it's too much for me. So they'll say I don't care, which is what happens then is, then I don't care when they get older turns into a major depression, right? Because what they're saying basically, is I'm not gonna let myself feel what I'm feeling right. And so one of the reasons people get into major depressions, I think, is when they're at an earlier point, something happens and it's too much for them. And the way they protect themselves, is they protect themselves with a protector that does protect them, it's the best choice they can make, but also limits them called I don't care. And then whenever anything looks like the original situation, they'll protect themselves with something called a major depression. I had a case like that, I had a case of a young man who had three major depressions in a row, and no one knew what it was. And nothing was working. And I found out what it was it was exactly this when he was three years old, he had made a special gift for his father. And he was trying to give his father was Christmas, Tommy, and he was trying to give his father the gift. And his father was having a lot of trouble at the time, and push them away. And the father goes up the stairs. And this boy is like holding on to his father trying to like get him to take his gift and, and the father walks out, right, and drives off. And he could remember I'll tell you how we remember this because he had no idea. And he said he could remember saying comes up I don't care. How did that come to be. He was in a major depression, when he came to see me had been a major depression for two months, the past two years, he had been made in major depressions that lasted like four to five months. And nothing he was doing was helping it eventually would just go away in time. And he's in the middle of this major depression. And I do a muscle test. And I say, this is gonna sound funny to you. But in my system, your depression isn't the problem. It's the protection from a worst problem. And he said, that sounds nuts. And I said, All right, I'll tell you what happens. I said, Well, what is the depression feel like? And he says, Okay, I can. And I found out using my diagnostic, which I can tell you more about. So you can understand why people stay strong, because you're going to press on on a muscle and it's either going to stay strong or relax. And I found out that it originated when he was zero to five years old. Okay. So I said, here's what you're going to do. I'm happy when oatmeal is an earlier version of you. And its name is heavy, wet oatmeal or younger. What he uses his name, he lets me use his name. His name is Nate. Because he goes and tells everybody about this anyway. And he said, All right, so this is three year old Nate was making a choice, we're going to find out what choice he made. He becomes this thing, right? And he says, Oh my god, I heard something about this. But that becomes very immediate when you become it. He's can see and experience himself. He's down trying to get his father this gift. And his father goes away. And he remembers saying to himself, I don't care and shut down entirely. Okay. And this degree to answer medis question, he looks like he's resilient. he's not. He's just numbed himself. Okay. So he has a major depression. So what I do is I say, here's what we're going to do. You made the best choice you could have at the time, right? But it's now 18 years later, and something happened that really triggered the choice and your major depression, why medication isn't helping you. It's why cognitive behavioral therapy isn't helping you. Because it's a choice. You made it three and if we can find out why you made the choice, how can you solve a problem if you don't know what it is? But we found out the cause the cause happened at age three. I say, he's here right now become him. He says, Oh, I know what's happening. He relives the story. All right, I say well, now we know what happened. So what we're going to do is we're going to just put them across the room and put them in the past and say look, you made the best choice you could have made but what I'm going to do is I'm going to make a different choice and what it is is heavy wet oatmeal was a protector that he asked to come in. So all you do with it sounded nuts to me said I just said choose to bring it outside of you. He looked at me like, You're crazy, kinda, but it's already outside of you. Because if you can wick this heavy wet oatmeal, right, you're still witnessing it. So from the point of view of the witness, you can witness it, it's outside you. So all I said is bring it further outside you outside your bodies, you can see it outside your body. He said, I can do that, okay, I say, look, that was fear base protection, you're going to send them a gift from the future, it's going to be called love base protection. So what you're going to do, because we're all pure channels of source energy, you're going to channel source energy into heavyweight oatmeal, and send it back to three year old Nate. And we're going to see what happens. And three year old Nate receives the gift. And he says, like, you know, like dad's having a problem and went off happily. Alright. And then I said to him, all right now who you really weren't before that was hiding, or was hidden underneath a heavy wet oatmeal. So you should feel more spacious. He said, I do feel more spacious. I said, Go into the space and find the true Are you that was hiding there because he was getting devastated. So he was protected. He goes in, he says, I see this boy, and he has golden hair, and he's bouncing around, and he's creative, and he's having the best time and he's light and lively. And I said, Put your hand on the body where he was, and invite him to come out and touch your hand and expand in every direction, forward, back, left, right up down until you are him to overflowing. And he gets to have this childlike wonder. And he gets to be also have all the wisdom you've gained over the last 18 years. And he does that. And then he says, Okay, I feel fantastic, but I don't. So how come I got into a depression? And, you know, this was February, late February, you got into depression around Christmas time. Everyone says it's an anniversary action. I said, I don't know. If you want to really know. I asked heavyweight oatmeal to come back for a second and become him. And instead of going back to age three and go back to what happened, he said, Oh, I know what happened. He said, No one thought there was any precursor. There was no cause for this depression. That's why they thought it was biological. Because he wasn't eating. He was early morning awakening. He had like no interest in life. I didn't care about anything. You know what he says? He says, I know exactly what it is. He said, never occurred to me two months ago, and he was a college student now and he was the head of an improv troupe. And he goes to his father and he says, Dad, I'm the head of this improv troupe. And I would love it if you'd come to my opening. And dad has now remarried and has two kids. One is an infant and one's a young toddler. And he says to Nate, Nate, I'm so sorry, I can't go because we made an agreement for the time being that we're not going to get babysitters and we're going to just keep the kids here. And he says, Dad, no problem. I don't care. And the next day went into a major depression. Of course, he had no idea. So he says, All right, smarty pants, because now he's having fun. He says, what happened to you before that? Because my dad went to my play, and he received my gift. And I said, I don't know. Why don't you just bring back heavyweight oatmeal again, and go back a year earlier. So he goes, he says, I know what happened. I had no idea. You know what happened? He had a girlfriend. And he made a special gift for the girlfriends is all this things happen at Christmas time? Because that's good. But it's not because it's an anniversary. It's because why didn't that happen when he was 12, because the same thing didn't happen. He makes a present first girlfriend, really special present. And he can see her and she has this fake smile on her face. And he knows that she's basically saying I don't want your present. And she has a fake smile and says thank you. And he didn't register room. And he says, I don't care. He said, I could see myself said I don't care. Next day, he went into a major depression lasted four months. And then what happens is, I said, All right, well, that's the only reason I find out that's the origin of the depression. He says his mother comes in. And he says, Mom, I'm starving. Let's go to get a double cheeseburger, and his depression went away in 20 minutes. And it did. I'm not telling you all depression does that. It went away in 20 minutes, and it never came back. You know, I



have a question. I mean, I'm sure that they're going to be first of all, I'm sure that your theory of conflict, a lot of these psychiatric thinking of like, everything is biological. And you know, we all know that a chemical, biological, environmental, I mean, that's one question. So I wonder if how many



time you want to give me



Yeah, well, I mean, I'm just gonna Yeah, I'm gonna tell you this one. But then the second one is, is that I wonder if you could tell the difference between the clients that have benefited because this really means that they have to have insight into some of their old experiences, so they'll be able to connect? Or do you feel like the client doesn't really have to have they're not like intellectual or aware or



insight doesn't matter one iota. They're not going to analyze anything. They're going to become a body sensation. And then they're going to share a story. It takes zero insight,



except it takes time because amtico story.



He's in a major depression for two months. He's been in three major depressions over the last year sharing that story took 20 minutes his depression was gone. Yeah, he had to share a story.



So what to say is if they can connect, but based on all the time,



for 27 years, everyone can connect. I haven't met one person who can't do it, yet.



Got one. When you've got practice here, then because



the overall tree you can find I could drink a little one day and they would know how to do better than many therapists.



I mean, some people are much more aware. But there are other people like no, no, I don't know I have a panic attack. I've never had a no



one knows why they have a panic attack like that I don't care if they I'm fact if they think they know why they have a panic attack, it's probably a little bit harder, because they're going to be wrong, or they're not going to know what to do about it. So who cares? I mean, my program was very analytic 19th. Yeah, so it's like, but no, people don't need any insight. And the story is there, all they have to do is have it be revealed to them. And no one can do it. I can tell you stories. I mean, I got an 11 year old kid who was really on the spectrum, and was totally out of control. And I found out I was very interesting, I found out that what it was was a curse that started 5000 years ago. And he found the curse. And he said, I know what happened. And it happened when I was in this lifetime. He said that he told me this, he said it happened to me when I was seven months old in the womb, and this thing happened. And everything changed. And now you know what he didn't know, I didn't know that the pregnancy was going along fine until seven months, at which point he stopped growing. And the curse was about not growing. I mean, you know, for short guys, right? And what he didn't know, which his mother told me was he told me this happened when he was in the womb, at seven months old, whatever you want to make of that. And his mother heard this story and turned white and said, he doesn't know this. But his failure to thrive started when he was seven months old. in the womb, this kid was about in the third percentile. He had, among other things, he had failure to thrive. He took off this curse. And in three weeks, he went from the third percentile to the 25th percentile of weight. Because he got rid of a curse with a curse God, he destroyed the curse. He went and destroyed the curse. And they started to grow. And then he did another curse. And the next day he he set the table without being asked and he would never set the table. If you asked him he would have a temper tantrum. But his mother said, What the heck did you do to them? I said, Well, you can ask him, he says they took out we took off. He didn't need insight. He just went back to where it started and changed it with his first gun. Brilliant intervention, way better than anything I could have come up with. Right? So you don't need insight. The insight is inside, it's there. All you have to do is not have insight, all you have to do is say I'm going to listen to you. You're here sick to stomach feeling. You're here heavy wet oatmeal. I'm going to bring my attention to you. And whatever comes to me Next is insight. You know how long it would take to get Nate to regress to age three and find that story in analytic therapy. I can tell. But he was in analytic therapy, and it didn't do him any good. And believe me, he had a lot of insight. His mother is a great therapist and his father. I mean, they came they're very intellectuals and isn't nothing.



Yeah, sure. Yeah, I want to go back. Have you gotten people like that are into this medical model that really kind of disagree with you? That's a good upbringing, especially. Okay, of this genetic predisposition. Yeah. What



do you think genetic predisposition is?



I mean, you want research or, you know,



energy, oh, everything that's matter is slow down energy. And the only reason you have a problem, it's about consciousness. It has nothing. I'm gonna say something controversial. Biology comes out of energy. It's a manifestation of energy. So you can work on the body forever. And you know what that's like. It's like Newtonian physics, before Einstein in quantum mechanics. And everyone said to Einstein, you're crazy. And you want to know something, he could account for things that they couldn't account for, right? And so I'd say to anyone, the medical model, I'll say, that's fine. You work with them as much as you want. And I will tell you unless you get a better result. And so what I can tell you is, I think all of biology is irrelevant. I mean, because it's story biology, you know, when you say, my biography is my biology, right? I your manifestation is the manifestation of a narrative that you may or may not be aware of. And if you're not aware of it, you're going to live a faded life. And if you are aware of it, you'll live a destined life. And it's really that simple. And the beauty of what I'm doing is that I've gone and studied polyvagal theory, I know all of I mean, I know this stuff, and I will tell you, what they say in my experience doesn't make sense. Because if you start with a biological point of view, you're going to say, if you regress somebody from a biological point of view to age two, you're going to have to get them to be resourced again. And I say, Ah, that's crazy. Because if you're the witness and you choose to become the two year old, the two year old is here right now, and they will never get re traumatized and I I can tell you, I have worked with people that people would say there's no way you can do what we're doing, except for the fact that we are. And they're writing all about it. And I will work with anybody, I will work with people who have dissociative identity disorder, I will tell you the most amazing story about a woman who has di D with psychotic features that nothing was touching, and she was hospitalized two times a year, before I met her, she had one session, the whole di D went away and the psychosis, that's unusual. And that story, you'd say that's really wild. But when that woman was on more psychiatric medication,



I was gonna say, do you tell these individuals they eat, they can stop their medication, if they get one session?



I say you're the master of your own life, baby.



So even if they got better, they probably will stop their medication. And if they have a relapse? No, I mean,



I say it's the only the only thing I care about is if it's useful. We're not having a philosophical conversation here. If you come in here one day, and you can't account for the last three days, and something really bad has happened to you bugs crawling all over you. And an hour later, that never happens again, and the bugs go away. You probably will stop taking your medication. But you did then have to open to things that most psychiatrists, you won't you want to know what that story was? And that was an amazing story. Yeah, she had a horrendous history. And they thought it says that she watched her mother kill her sister, there was an amazing bad shit going down in this family. Okay. So I do my diagnostic. And I say, I'm going to tell you something, because when she wasn't psychotic, she was quite a good reporter. I find out I said, what the diagnostic is saying is you have something called the super imposition, and the super imposition is an energy that takes you over. Does that make any sense to you? And she looks at me like I'm crazy. And she said, I'm going to tell you something. When I was eight years old, I was taken over by an energy I even know when it happened. She was seeing a psychiatrist at the time because of all the things that weren't being talked about. But she said, I was at this. She was Southern Baptists, and she's at this like fire and brimstone like sermon. And she said, this energy took me over and I felt so weird. Like, I was never myself again. And the next day, she said, I went. And I told my psychiatrist this. And you know what he said to me? He said, You're crazy, put me on Thorazine. And I thought I would never tell anybody again. And this is now probably a little over 30 years later. And she said, but I know what happened. I said, All right, here's what we're gonna do. We know when this thing originated, it happens to muscle tested, it's you got to know exactly what it is we're going to go back and have you be that little girl. And this time when the energy takes you over, we're going to do something different. Okay. And so she goes back and she says, This energy is taking me over and it said she knew what to do. And you know what she started to do. She started to do a dance unlike anything you've ever seen in your life, and anything she's ever seen either. She's one 16th Native American, and she's just trying to get interested in this stuff. And she says there's something about my heritage, right? She's one 16th Cherokee. And she had just started really learning about this. And she said, I'm supposed to do a dance. She doesn't know any native dances, and she starts to do this dance that looks like the flower of life, if you know that symbol, if you don't, it's an amazing symbol, but to a Native American beat, and she does it for a minute, and she looks up at me like, what am I doing? And about a minute after that you can kind of if you're attuned to it, you could feel the room shake and get lighter. And she said she was done. And you know, many times she was hospitalized after that. When I saw her zero, and I happen to see her last year we were she and I ended up in the hospital. Not I mean, a physical hospital. And I saw her I hadn't seen her in 25 years. And she said never came back. Well, well, I'm not gonna tell you all psychosis is because energies took you over. But I will tell you something. The mother of Nate, she tells this story to this is a strange story. She came into me one day and she said, You've got to help me, because she is heterosexual female, right has never had any feelings for women at all. And suddenly, she's having these feelings. We're next to a middle school. And she is seeing these like prepubescent 11 year olds walking by. And she has this very intrusive thought that I won't tell you what it was because it was very graphic. And she said, it's just this, I'm having this experience. And it's like if I had less than a week ago, I'd be in jail right now. So she said, I don't know can help me and I have no idea what this is. I went visited my mother, but I visited my mother before that this has never happened. So we found out that in fact, it originated about a month ago and we went back and do you know what happened? It was really an amazing story. And she was in a relationship with a man who was on the vise squad and he was doing a sting on on a pedophile. And he and that man got into a big fight. And that night, she and he she and her lover made love and whatever you want to believe about this. And I would say that the reason that that first man was a pedophile Was it an energy took him over whatever you want to understand about that. And when the two men got into a fight, and went into the man's field, but you can be like a carrier, and some, it's like a virus need, sometimes you don't get the symptoms, they had sex. And if you want as a woman to really open to a field, like if you have intercourse with somebody, you better be careful who you're having intercourse with, because you will have everything, all of who they are. And all of that they've been with, it's going to get inside of you, where it's we think we're just having fun, or something, but no more or less crazy. And we found out and I said, Okay, well, then we know what it is. And we found out the intervention that was called for was light, because light is a vibration. And if you can hit the right algorithm of light, it's like the vibration of the light, which is each color of light is like face of the Divine. And she channeled a certain colors of light. And then she said, it's gone. And it never came back. And she sent it off with love into the light. And that was it gone. So I want to work with people in hospitals, and I want to work with people in prisons, because if you can do a diagnostic and you know that these things exist, whether you believe in them or not, I don't care. Because if we have a result like that, and we get a lot of pedophiles out of prison, and they're not pedophilic anymore, who's going to care if it was really a dark energy, or they just believed that? Nobody? It's interesting question,



I want to flip a little bit to Dr. Dinka. And you because I see two screens, I see conventional, I see unconventional, that dates back somewhat of thousands of years, because you know, ci has been practiced throughout generations for thousands of years and energy forces. I think every major he'll be out here society, or every ancestral society has had some type of a belief in energy forces. And it's interesting to see because, you know, I see this from both worlds right now I get, you know, the traditional psychologists today, you know, in the smart ones, like Dr. Day, who dig deep and try to, you know, decipher everything in someone's life to find what generated that reaction. And now I'm hearing you. And I have to admit, you must get a lot of I mean, seeing this, do you get a lot of resentment in the field or hate in the field from other psychologists, because it's something that no typical doctor, and I'm talking medical doctor also will incorporate into healing individuals, which I think is wrong, because there have been practices for thousands of years that have shown to work. And these healers, are these doctors nowadays? Who are more holistic doctors, you know, they get a lot of hate from the medical field. So do you get the same type of hate that they see? I mean, just what's your experience with that?



Well, first of all, I don't go to traditional conferences and talk about this stuff. I go to things like energy psychology conferences, or Behavioral Medicine conferences, or transpersonal, hypnosis conferences or things like that, then they invite me to come. And I certainly could do it on an edgy tradition. I mean, I'm my training is more traditional than anybody's I have a straight doctorate in clinical psychology, believe me, they weren't teaching me this stuff. So the beauty is, I can talk about it to any way you like, if you don't believe anything, I said, I'll find a way to talk with you. I've met people who are atheists, they say never say the word source. I say that. I don't even know what it is. I have other people say don't say the word past lives. I said, I don't know about past lives. If I want to talk to somebody I say it's kind of like play therapy. Well, most traditional psychologists can get into play therapy, I'll say it's just like adult play therapy. But I don't want kids to write, I have to find a way to talk with you. They will speak your language. Do you see us backing away



from traditional medicines and traditional beliefs of how we prescribe medicine? How we diagnose disorders, medically, psychologically? I mean, you seem like you have an extensive background in this and talking ci, you know, I want to dive down the rabbit hole and ask you questions on Hiawatha and finding yourself with that, because I'm sure you've done a lot of research and you know, you know that game. So do you see us backing away from that? Do you see Western medicine in the United States backing away from some of these typical beliefs that we've seen for, you know, the past 2030 years, when in reality, we're kind of taking steps back and we're saying, Hey, wait a minute, everybody. Why don't you move more before popping a pill?



What I'd say is I see that little polarizing, I think it's like, really, it's polarizing, which is too bad. I mean, that's why I do want to go and talk. You know, I want to talk with everybody. I want to talk with very mainstream psychiatrists, I want to talk with everyone. And I have no problem with them. I have no problem with people taking medication. I mean, it's like, you know, anything can move energy, certain medications, open your heart chakra, I'm not opposed to medication, I can even muscle test and find out if you know, your LBL is something that's really helping you out, theoretically, so I don't care. I just want them to feel better. Right? And what I'd say is like, if someone's afraid of where I'm at, and I see them as other, someone has a problem, and it isn't them. It's me. So I don't have any problem with anybody doing what they're doing. And you know, we all have something to learn from each other. And they know things I don't know, I may know some things that they might be interested in, I'll tell you, I think this one's gonna win because it's a more elegant theory, just like, it's sort of like you go from Newtonian physics to quantum physics and relativity. And you can explain certain things with quantum physics and relativity that you can't explain in Newtonian physics. But quantum physics and relativity can't explain certain things that I think I can explain. Because as soon as you open to the idea that there's consciousness, everything makes sense, because then if life is consciousness, then what are we we're mystical cells in a Mystical Body called life. And that means that by definition, all of life is who we are. So we have access to all of it right now. So what that means, of course, is information doesn't travel. And it's all happening simultaneously. And that can explain things in physics that no one who believes in relativity can understand because how can something travel faster than the speed of light the information get there? And the answer is because it's not traveling, because what's happening here is simultaneously happening here. And you know how you know, because if you have enough information, you could take this nice little holographic one cell there, 3 trillion of them, and you can clone the whole body spontaneously if you have enough information. So it's all there right now you don't clone. You know, when they're cloning the sheep. They're not cloning a baby sheep. They're cloning a sheep. That was the exact replica of the sheep that was there from, you know, you could do it theoretically, from one cell. So where's the information traveling? It's all there. Everything is there. Right now. Everything that had ever happened is there right now, everything that's happening right now is there right now everything that's happening in the future, and every possibility is there right now I have some people who have the root cause of their problems in the future, either in this lifetime or a future life, it just feels different. It comes back to them like a warning, like something is likely to happen. And if you're aware of it, it may not happen. Of course, that's a hard one to test.



It's amazing. You say that I was a student and a patient of Dr. Dee's back in the day and my brother had died. And I thought I was sad and going through depression. And she's the only person that unpacked the one thing that no other psychologist figured out. And I was angry, I was angry that he had left me and it was that feeling of him leaving me which really made me angry. And I was going through rages, you know, beat people up for about, you know, a year or two, until dr. D helped me and I love how these past concrete Yeah, she did a great job, she did a great job, I turned into the model student turned my grades around everything. And I owe a lot of that to her because she she actually dives deeper down the rabbit hole with her clients. And yeah, she did it with me. And she gave me something that not every other psychologist gave me. And they were like, oh, you're sad, you're depressed? Could you brother died, they didn't tell me that I



was feeling angry that that feeling of anger at the time. So the only thing that probably would have been different with what she did, because I mean, like, my impression of dr. D is, you know, I can say this, like we're talking about you when you're in the room, right? It's open and like, remarkable. I mean, the only difference would be that, you probably could find it on your own if you dropped into the body sensation of what people were calling your sadness. And what would happen then is you find the anger that was there pretty much by yourself, because you'd become the sensation, and you begin to realize that you're angry because he left. And then underneath that you probably found a deeper layer of grief even. And the only difference would be I could probably do a diagnostic on it for you. So that the answer would be coming through you through your body. Because you know, it's like an opening to a deeper aspect. And it can suggest things like it can suggest that what's really going on the next layer is about anger all of that you can do a diagnosis on and the beauty then is the answers coming through the person who's there. It's not like I'm the expert, sort of like telling them something unless it says you have an idea. So you better tell them the idea. And then at least then that comes to them. But yeah, if you have someone who's highly intuitive and sensitive, and they're a psychologist, and they can help you really go deeply into what you're experiencing, you're going to get amazing results. And very beautiful.






we got to say she's intuitive, sensitive. I get paid to say



hi, don't believe it all on his own.



I mean, but to go You're right. And I think I too was trained mainly psycho analytic. I don't know why psych DS they trained as a psychoanalyst. They teach us about DBT. And I was in psychoanalysis myself, but but the idea is, is that you're writing and I think some of this stuff that you are saying it is connected to being able to understand the root, or where does it, you know, generate. So if I said yes, I think that you're angry because your brother left you and for you to say, Well, tell me where you feel it and what does it feel like and where did it begin? So what you're doing is is that what I see is that how you are allowing the person to feel the feeling and to be able to identify it and tell you when it started, like his anger started when his brother died for example,



or, or but it may not have because that may have been in your case, it sounds like it was but maybe that was also a reenactment of something you never know



Like the grief, I think you're right. I think Well,



I think the underlying there was a grief. But let's suppose you know, in an earlier story, however you want to understand it.



Well, I grew up in an abusive home also. And you know, I, you know, my dad was abusive growing up, my grandmother died, I was very close to her at a young age. And you I never really had closure on that. I'd left the hospital that day. And, you know, and I was really angry that I had left the hospital. And then two hours later, she had died. And I was very close to her. So, you know, there's a whole slew of things that are can be unpacked, when



all you're saying is you had a great therapist, that's very true. Okay, that is very true. You had a great therapist, and she had a great client, because you know, you're the one who actually does the work, you know, we,



Ryan does the work, it's true, I think you're right is like when it comes from within the person, then, you know, because sometimes it's like, you can tell them what you're seeing, but they don't get it until they really start to connect it themselves. So, of course,



and the only thing that gets difficult is, you know, if the root cause isn't in this lifetime, and you have something horrific in this lifetime, and you can work on it for a long time. But you say, you know, something isn't working, like I had a woman who had very good therapy for 15 years around ritual abuse. But a lot of her symptoms were still there, even though she'd come a long, long way. And she found me somehow I don't even remember this was like, certainly well over 20 years ago. And she said, I must be missing something, can you regress me again to my childhood, and there must have been some murder that I had to do that is accounting for my symptoms that we haven't found yet. So I muscle test her and I said, I have some bad news for you. Because she was very high up in the ritual abuse community. It said, your problem, the thing that your symptoms are right now that you think started in this lifetime, didn't start in this lifetime. And we have to find out where it started. And it started in one, there are two kinds of past lives that we ology, and there's karma, right? So soul can come through blood and soul can come through energy. So something can happen to your ancestors, and you can live that life out. And of course, or in your case of many, I mean, like, some of his sadness could have been his brother sadness, and then he could have been, you know, just passing it and no one would think to say, you know, you've kept your brother with you. And it's really he was sad. And like, maybe it's like, you have to have a conversation with him or something. And all of that is diagnoseable. So I can say that, but in her case, it said it was a karmic past life. Now she didn't believe in past. So I didn't say that. But I said, it's nothing that happened to is it. And she went back in and found from these symptoms, a story that was for her, given her religious beliefs, even worse than anything that happened in that ritual abuse, which is saying a lot. And I will not tell you what she found. But it was I can remember what she found. And it was more atrocious than ritual abuse. I think one could reasonably say that, but the ritual abuse that she found with people pulling off people's arms, and etc, but not killing them, was an echo of the thing that she found in this other lifetime. And when we transformed the other lifetime, all the symptoms went away. And that's hard to find, even if you're a really good therapist, because there's no reason from a soul point of view, what I'd say is, you know, lifetimes are the soul what years are to us, and it's like, I think we carry I don't think we're tabula rasa is that come in, but I think things can crystallize in this lifetime, like night story, crystallized in this lifetime, you know, but her story around the ritual abuse, crystallized action and other lifetime when there was something that was for her even worse, that she couldn't integrate. And so she's trying to master it. And one of the ways on a soul level you mastered, it's called the law of attraction, you attract to you what you need in order to heal and grow. That's not what most people think the law of attraction is, but that's what it is, which attract what you need. Right?



What would you say to sensation seeking behavior and athletes, you know, that are in CrossFit or extreme sports, where they approach they attract danger, and they attract this near death thing. I mean, my wife looks at me when I do CrossFit. She says, I don't want to do that, because you look like you're gonna die. And I say, I love that feeling. So what would you say to people like that? What's our malfunction? Or what are these top tier athletes malfunction?



There's only a malfunction. If you think there's a malfunction. If you said I think I'm going to die, but I can't stop and there's a malfunction. If you say I love it, and it's not hurting anybody, and it's making me feel great. Why would you ever come to therapy? There'd be no reason to. Right.



Is there a drive for punishment, though? I mean, some might say oh, there's you know, there's an underlying thing where you're driving yourself punishing yourself and they



say that what I would say to you is, if you don't think it's a problem, unless someone else thinks is a problem, and they have power over you, you'll never go to therapy. Why will you care if you like get you know, Farren ohms all over your body and you're like doing your CrossFit thing and you feel great. It will only be a problem. If you say, Andy, I feel great, but I can't stop. It feels addictive to me. Right now. You're saying there's a problem even though you feel great, I feel great every chocolate chip cookies, but if I eat too many of them, then it's a problem because I can't stop, right. And so what I'd say to you, if that's the case, then we'd have to start to discover what the cause was that you couldn't stop. The cause could be anything, it could be being punished, for sure. It could be running away from something. Or it could be a story where you were running a marathon in ancient Greece and you died trying to get to the finish line. And who knows, the beauty is, we'll find out together and then you'll discover it for yourself.



I feel bad for the dude that's gonna have my next life.



I feel bad for that guy.



tell you, man, you're creating a great column in the temple of your soul. That's what I would say so. And the fact that you feel bad means that you'll be even better. Because I know. Sorry,



one more quick question. io oska.



Can you talk about that



a little bit? There's a lot of experimentation going on, especially in Silicon Valley, with iwoca LSD. And you know, they're trying to bring it back to the roots with pod and everything. Can you talk about that? Is that a direction that we might be heading into? Do you see it as beneficial as some of these Silicon Valley? experts are saying it is, you know, they'll say, Oh, I, I did iOS guy. I feel great. I'm going to do it next weekend, too. And it turns into something that it's not I mean, what's your take on that?



That's a simple question, and not as simple answer as what I first say. The second thing I would say is, I wish I were a team. And the youngest member of our team, went down and did. He went on a two week trip for Iosco, and he does it regularly. And he thinks it's like he thinks it would this is the best thing that's imaginable for healing trauma, and for opening to new possibilities. And I think, by and large, what I'd say is, you're in relationship with a goddess, that's what I would say. So I wosk is a literal plant, but it's also an energetic, it's a, what we might call a de evolve. And so when you get into a relationship with a goddess, by taking her in, by receiving her, you think about it that way, both physically and energetically, and spiritually, you'll find out what happens when you get into an energetic with a goddess. And when I say generically, that's a pretty good thing. Probably, when I say some people will get destroyed by it. And probably, but look, I'm open to everything. So and I'm certainly open to that. And I'm certainly open to pay oj and all kinds of other things. But, you know, I'm thinking about whether I want that to be part of my path or not, it's certainly I don't need that for my clients. But, you know, he thinks we should put those two things together. And I'm open, you know, because he's done all of our training. And he's really quite spectacular. And he's now saying, what I really want to do is find a way to integrate, you know, trips into the jungle and Iosco, with the kind of healing work we're doing, because you went down there. And I guess I can say this, I'm hoping I can Oh,



you're good. You're good. Don't worry about it.



Worry about for him. But the leader of the trip that he went on, said, I did all this iwoca, but I'm stuck someplace. And I think you could actually help me and they did a session of life centered therapy, and that helped get something that the iwoca didn't get, but I think I was going to be the things that this doesn't open you to So does that help at all?



Yeah, definitely. Definitely does. Sorry. I'm done. No, no. I mean, I



mean, we need to wrap up. But I was just wondering, I mean, you've mentioned a lot of cases that have worked for, have you ever had a situation where there are certain people or D are certain disorders or certain things that you felt like they weren't as successful with you?



Sure. First of all, I mean, I'll give you the good news answer to that. And then the not good news for me answer to that. I had a woman who came in for a blood draw, okay, she had, she was in a graduate program. And all she wanted, she had a, she had to have a medical exam, and the middle exam included the blood draw, okay. And she said, I'm never going to graduate from this program, because I'd rather be dead than have to get my blood drawn. And it took us a year and a half for her to be able to sit down and get her blood drawn. And I can't begin to tell you how many layers there were there. But like, if I had said to her, you know, we can just tap it out. Because it starts with Well, what's a blood draw? Think about it for a second, you're being penetrated, right? against your will, in this case by an older man, and then blood is coming out. And that letter do a horrific case of block a block memory of sexual abuse. It was really horrendous sexual abuse, which is why she repressed the whole thing. But that took us two lifetimes where she felt like she had betrayed people and it was so even when I have quote unquote, successful results with people, I can't tell you. I mean, you might be in it with me forever. I mean, there's certain things that are easy, relatively speaking, like, unexplainable, chronic pain tends to be pretty easy, because it tends to be one story, you find the story, you change it, but there are things about like, becoming more and more mature, that are like climbing a mountain and it's going into deeper and deeper levels of the things you're afraid to experience about yourself. And that is, you know, I haven't found a way to make that one go slow. I mean, go to make it fast. It's a very slow process for most people. But you know, on the other hand, most of the greatest, you know, mystics also I mean, you know, even before he was crucified the week before, he's still screaming at God saying, why have you forsaken me? Right? So, but I've had a few people who I'd say, from a subjective point, they keep coming. But I would say, I have a man who has a horrendous case of OCD. And I've seen him off and on for a long time. And I'd say we've made minimal progress in his OCD. And I think there are all kinds of reasons for that. But he's still anxious about it, it still drives him crazy. And, you know, I've seen him off and on, I mean, you know, periodically for years, and he's gotten some results. But nothing is OCD. And I think I have some ideas about why but I don't know what to do about it. So



maybe there's some people that don't want to get rid of their symptoms, and they come to us. I mean, I don't know about your experience, there are people that come to me and say, Well, I'm depressed, I want you to help me get over my depression. But then even if you try to intervene in whichever way that you can you feel like some people are just not ready, or they feel like this is like a safety haven. Maybe they've been like this for a while, there's a lot of reason that sometimes people think that they are ready for this type of intervention, and they're not.



Well, I would I'd say to that is I think that's true. But often you can work with that also with the secondary gain and stay like, you know, there's clearly a part of you that wants to get rid of your depression. And there's clearly a part of you that's really scared to get rid of your depression, name that, then maybe when you know, the time is right, and you can do something with that. And I totally think you're right. So anyway, it's time to debate Trump. So what is there anything more you want to say, as a way of completing here, because all I want to tell you is like, I feel unbelievably grateful. And, you know, we do do trainings, we're now doing only online trainings, because of our wonderful COVID. So anybody can do our trainings, they just have to go to our website, if they want to say, we do therapy, we do it all over the world we have, we see people all over the world, because we can do therapy remotely. So if people go to life centered, they can find our trainings and they can find, and the trainings are lovely, because they get two hours of mentoring with me a week. And I love doing that. So, you know, it's like new people. You know, we have some very senior therapists, and we have people who've never done therapy at all. And the trainings opened anybody who has a good heart, good mind and wants to go for it. So



how long does the training go for? I mean, how long is the training process with your program?



Well, we're just starting online now what it was before his, it was 15 days over the course of the year was a first year and in 15 days, I can teach someone all of this stuff about how to work with trauma, I can teach you the whole framework, I can teach you the whole diagnostic, I can teach you about all of these patterns, like death wishes and betrayal and energies taking you over and when something's a protection. And when something's a reliving of the drama, that all takes place in one year, then there's a second year, because we do many other things. It's like sometimes what you need to know is what you're passionate about. And it's not that there's a trauma you just don't know. Or sometimes it's about inner mastery. Or sometimes it's about making more energy about sometimes it's about maturity, or sometimes it's about the fact that somebody is judgmental about someone and they can't take their perspective into account. And some people have a problem knowing that they can open to all perspectives. And that takes your plus we teach people how to work with relationships and with systems and then we do masterclass.



Do you do any do anything in sports, by any curiosity, sports or anything with athletes,



I've definitely seen athletes, I don't do anything, right. I don't do trainings for athletes, although I,



I would love to get into the mental side of athletes. And if I could go back, dr. D knows this, I'd be a sports psychologist. Yeah, it's my one regret in life that I didn't do was get my psychology degree. And I took the route of being a business monkey. So



I will tell you, if you want to be a sports psychologist, right, two things have to happen. The first thing that has to happen is you have to release blocks. Because if you try to it's like if you try to build a road, and there are trees across it, and if you don't know how to get rid of the trees, you can't build the road, right? So what you need to do if you were working with anybody and they were like anxious or whatever they were the first thing you've just had them do if you were doing it very simply as you just say what happens to the body when you're feeling the anxiety or you know, you come to the ultimate you know race and then you blow it let's find out what happens there. And once you do that, you clear out all that stuff, which you can just do by if you did nothing else but have them focus in their body and know that anything they say is the answer. So if they say you say what's what are you feeling in the body, when you are you know, blowing it and they say I feel nothing. What you need to know is there out there answering your question, then all you have to do is ask them where in your body you feeling, I'm feeling nothing. And then they'll be able to tell you where they're feeling nothing. But if you don't know that, then you say the same. They don't feel anything. What does that mean? Yeah. And then what you need to know is everything they say is part of the process. So as soon as they go into the sensation, they are telling the story of whoever it is that's blocked, wasn't clearly them, right now, it could be a three year old them, and it could be layers of it. And after you've gone through that, then it's like you have a clear field, then you will can do practices that are more typical of sports psychologists, which is going to be an eidetic imagery, like, imagine yourself doing it like you're living it, and you can see it and feel it insensitive. Yeah. And then you can do things that deepen that and install it more deeply, like something called pappus acupressure technique, which is simple to teach people, it just looks like this. And it's really good for installing positive things more deeply. Or you can do it vibrationally through sound and color. And that's all it takes to be a good sports psychologist, from my point of view, but I'm not a sports psychologist takes that and more schooling and a degree, which I really don't want to do. Well, here's what I say to you. If you went to an athlete, and no one was able to work with him and you don't have the school and you don't have a degree and you work with him and he gets a good result. You think he's gonna give a damn now?



No, you have a crap because you got it. You got it to work. Yeah, there was a result there. Hey, true.



You guys have been such a joy.



Oh, it's been a joy having you. I hope you come back. So I have you back on. Yeah, we got to bring you back on. If you come back on, it'd be awesome to have you here again, maybe we could come up with some crazy quake questions. We're gonna have some crazy Middle Eastern questions there that you can debunk for us? What are



my most powerful experiences other than when I told you all happened in Egypt? So I'm there.



That's amazing.



I'll tell you some wonderfully crazy stories about what happened to me in Egypt. But you guys have been it's been Thank you so much.



Thank you for coming on. And



I'm sorry to talk so much. You know,



thank you, you had a lot of information. And I think a lot of our listeners, especially people that are looking for, you know, the understanding of healing, I think they might reach out to you or even take your I might want to take a war. You know, your trading To be honest, I know.



I get to talk to you, you know, two times a week,



that's awesome. People find you besides your website, are you on the social channels, Twitter, Instagram, any of that or everything? You're on everything. All right, that's great. That's good. So they can just find you on Instagram. I'll link, I'll put all your links in the show notes. And people can just find you there.



That'd be great. And if you guys want me back, I'd love to come back. It's been until Yeah. And you know, we could have more of a conversation next time. And I won't like try to get all this information in like, you know, an hour. But



I think we should do something with like a client or somebody, they can come in with some of them.



I do a lot of remote sessions, any client and you like, and I'll be happy to do a blind session with them.



I think that might be interesting, though. My dad Okay, let's let's I want to think about this. I mean, as long as we maintain that confidentiality, we got to work on the logistics of it, but I think it both



person, it whoever you find you find one person because I do a lot of these things remotely on podcasts.



Yeah, I want to say thanks. And I can I



will you can find them. Because you can see some of the sessions I do. If you want to see what it looks like,



No, I want to see somebody here I think somebody that I'm working with,



yeah. Because you're so good that probably what's going to happen is they're going to find something that isn't from their own life. And at that point, their anonymity becomes far less important because if they're getting if they have stomach problems, because they were shot as a train robber in 1878, in the Midwest, it's not quite as much as if they say, I'm just realizing that my father had sex with me my whole childhood. You know what I'm saying?



That took a really, really weird turn right there. Like the train game was pretty cool. But then the whole father sex thing that I was just like, oh, okay, all right.



People don't like to reveal. Yeah, like those kinds of things, to respect their anonymity. And then what I'm saying to you is, like, you know, people say those things come up in session sometime. Yeah, I can pretty much guarantee you did something that someone First of all, if you bring someone in, and now I'm sorry, I brought up that example if it triggers people, but um, I was just trying to think what



to do. And I think a lot of times it is true. And especially in this society, they really worry about their family name, or they worry about image American, they'll share a lot of things with me that they haven't shared with someone else that is query, for example, or because they're worried about somebody else knows someone that's going to know their secret. And so I think you're right, and



by the other thing I'd say is, if something comes up for someone, when they're doing a demonstration, my first priority is to them, I'll just if they say I don't want to go there. I'll just say stop. You know, if they say no, I mean, the problem is the first what I say to people in a situation like that is if you say I want to stay Saw? Well, that could be part of a story, right? So I will find out for you if that's happening in 2020. Or if that's happening, I want to stop is just a reliving of a memory, because everything is part of the process. But if you then say, No, Andy right now I want our session to stop. And of course, because and yeah, I would love, I would happily do a session bringing anybody and, you know, I can describe the work briefly. For people who haven't seen it, I can describe the work in like, 15 minutes and, you know, then we could do a session and then we could, you know, talk about it, it would be lovely, and it'd be a joy and it'd be an honor,



I think, let's think about that. I think I'm interested or



definitely that'd be awesome.



I think of many people. So let's see who's comfortable.



All right, quick follow up. Thanks, Dr. Andy, thank you so much.



The whole world



including us. That's right. It's true. Do



one on me, Dr. Andy.



I will tell you if you want me to do a session with you, I will happily do. It was one of the people who runs one of the podcasts and I'd say come up with something that you want to work on and I will probably be able to find a way with you that you could do it in a way that would not be uncomfortable for you. But that's up to you and we can talk about it. Okay, Juliet if you want to fine.



Sandy, thanks, doctor. Really appreciate it.



Thank you. Bye Bye.



Thanks for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please head over to iTunes to subscribe rate and leave a review. You can also find us on Instagram at the project Kuwait. Thank you and join us next time