Jonathan Mills Creator of Rehab Revolution Discusses Accredited Certifications Within The Fitness Industry, Accrediting Bodies, The Weekend Trainers, Training With Integrity and How to Spot a Scam of a Program

Speaker 1:                           00:01                     The project lit lit. Hey everybody. Welcome to this episode of the project and in today's episode I'm sitting down with Jonathan Mills, creator of Rehab Revolution. The guy like dropped some serious knowledge bombs in this episode. I mean if you are an aspiring trainer and an aspiring online coach or want to learn more about the fitness industry, listen to what this guy has to say. He also points out some of the pitfalls that we might fall into. Well, looking into I'd say educational certifications. He completely changed my mind when I looked at accrediting bodies. We get into a little bit of a debate midway through it and again, it's such a good episode for everybody. New and old trainers. Give it a listen and again if you have any questions, dms or shoot us an email. All this and more today's episode. Hey guys,

e course is all about. I want to see what legitimacy it has to it. And they're like, no, it's just signed by our head trainer. I'm like, who is your head trainer? What was he accredited by? What's his background? Just as a coach for 15 years?

Speaker 2:                           05:25                     Yes. Some of the best coaches and some of the best trainers out there have zero certificates. You know what I mean? It's Kinda like with teachers and professionals in different industries. For instance, take Richard Bronson, the guy dropped out of high school or dropped out of college and he's the richest man in the world. But at the same time, especially in this part of the world, that accreditation or that legitimacy needs to be recognized so you don't have the posers coming out so to speak. So what do you think about that side of the argument? Definitely. I said

Speaker 3:                           05:56                     which whatever industry you're in Roy, he's going to get those. So called poses. I got like Tommy and and create the writing stuff, a marketer as the best thing ever. It just comes down to the individual to, I say it's their responsibility to kind of check before they jump in and stop kind of paying money and spending more investing their time in. So learning just because it looks great and the marketing's amazing. It needs to look into that further. Look at the credibility of the people running it. All the people teaching it. Do I have a background in what they're teaching as I taught before? Do they have like you that credibility back them up and some do, some don't. But again it comes down to the same with some of the accredited courses I've seen run are the content, is industry standard? Does it mean that standard is like extremely high quality?

Speaker 3:                           06:45                     It just means it&

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

The project lit lit. Hey everybody. Welcome to this episode of the project and in today's episode I'm sitting down with Jonathan Mills, creator of Rehab Revolution. The guy like dropped some serious knowledge bombs in this episode. I mean if you are an aspiring trainer and an aspiring online coach or want to learn more about the fitness industry, listen to what this guy has to say. He also points out some of the pitfalls that we might fall into. Well, looking into I'd say educational certifications. He completely changed my mind when I looked at accrediting bodies. We get into a little bit of a debate midway through it and again, it's such a good episode for everybody. New and old trainers. Give it a listen and again if you have any questions, dms or shoot us an email. All this and more today's episode. Hey guys,

Speaker 2: 0:57

welcome to this edition of the Project Kuwait and in today's episode I'm joined by Jonathan Mills. He is a educational expert in training, I would say. I mean you offer a vast variety of training certifications in Kuwait and Dubai, probably all over the GCC. I think I got one of my first certifications with you a couple of years ago here in Kuwait. So Jonathan, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for coming on man.

Speaker 3: 1:25

Yeah, thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:27

So Jonathan, I mean just to give a little background to some of the listeners, when I approached you at first my questions were all about accreditation and accredited bodies and you're kind of like, dude, stop. Wait a minute. That's not what it's always about. So you want to talk about that first, let's just jump right into it man.

Speaker 3: 1:43

Show this jump straight into the accreditation and only accreditation courses. Yeah. So it's kind of a big talking point. Especially what am I in the Middle East? So many trainers are just searching for courses internationally accredited. Got Stamps here and they got points here and there. And the funny thing is is when you ask them to tell what they wanted for, where they going, they got, oh, I'm not going anywhere. Why is it so important? And with accredited courses. It's one of those things where a lot of them, like the take your level two, level three for example. A lot of those that are currently being told the content is so old school that it's just not as relevant in the[inaudible] world for current fitness professionals who people looking to get into the industry, it really doesn't prepare them to be a fitness professional and the car model, the world we live in, and it's not to say that they're wrong to do like 20 years ago they had their place, but now with the Internet as is literally you can get all the information you need for free or you got to just not where to look and just bring it all together and like some big commercial chains of gyms they have see required to have accredited courses as part of their requirements work for them, which is fair enough. So as while our trainers do them, but if you're in that, when you don't need to have that, it kind of opens you up for more opportunity of education and learning. I know a lot of non accredited courses that have amazing content and amazing education, but they're just not recognized by anyone as besides our restaurant recognized international recognized. But the content is amazing. Whereas on the accredited courses that uh, well leave a little to be desired. She recites. It's like, yeah, it's just pricey information. You can just do go and spend a few hours learning. So it's not to say that accredited courses are bad or not accredited courses are good or vice versa. It's personal preference and like familiar, I've got hundreds of certificates, a lot of information, Piper member anymore. And the thing is it's what you do that information is the knowledge that you're learning is it, you're learning it because you're passionate about it, you're learning it because it's going to help you serve your clients better or you learning it to get a piece of paper with a stamp on it. And that's kind of the, the message I tend to hear a lot why at the moment, especially in the Middle East, is trainers, all the keeper courses with CPD points with these points, with that stamp, with this stamp. And if that's kind of why you're doing a course, it's very much not the right reason to do. One is what you want to learn, really excites you to learn more about it and as much as you can about it and it's going to help you not only improve on your own abilities as a trainer, as a fitness professional, but also help you to serve your clients better. That's when you say, yeah, that's the course I want to do that. The education I want to learn, but if you're doing it for just some piece of paper and some points, then I would rethink the way you invest your money and your time as well.

Speaker 2: 4:42

That makes sense from your perspective. I can see totally from where you're coming from at the same time, like I look at it in a different way based on I'd say these dummy courses that have been popping up recently around Kuwait and through Saudi Arabia and parts of[inaudible] Hall, so where these guys are just creating courses out of their own jam or their own box and they're saying, hey, this is our course. It costs about a thousand dollars and cause I call just out of curiosity, I got an ad and I was like, okay, well let me see this guy, let me see what the course is all about. I want to see what legitimacy it has to it. And they're like, no, it's just signed by our head trainer. I'm like, who is your head trainer? What was he accredited by? What's his background? Just as a coach for 15 years? Yes. Some of the best coaches and some of the best trainers out there have zero certificates. You know what I mean? It's Kinda like with teachers and professionals in different industries. For instance, take Richard Bronson, the guy dropped out of high school or dropped out of college and he's the richest man in the world. But at the same time, especially in this part of the world, that accreditation or that legitimacy needs to be recognized so you don't have the posers coming out so to speak. So what do you think about that side of the argument? Definitely. I said

Speaker 3: 5:56

which whatever industry you're in Roy, he's going to get those. So called poses. I got like Tommy and and create the writing stuff, a marketer as the best thing ever. It just comes down to the individual to, I say it's their responsibility to kind of check before they jump in and stop kind of paying money and spending more investing their time in. So learning just because it looks great and the marketing's amazing. It needs to look into that further. Look at the credibility of the people running it. All the people teaching it. Do I have a background in what they're teaching as I taught before? Do they have like you that credibility back them up and some do, some don't. But again it comes down to the same with some of the accredited courses I've seen run are the content, is industry standard? Does it mean that standard is like extremely high quality? It just means it meets basic industry standard and how it gets taught is going to be different person to person. Like you can teach the same course with five different people and you're gonna get five completely different outcomes in terms of the experience you get, how and is taking information they could do in a credit course with one person and I'll come out feeling, oh my God, this is not the best course ever. Or I could come out with the same cost for someone else and think that was a complete waste of time and money. And that's where accreditation does have its place or some noise. Huge fan of accreditation per se in terms of placing a huge importance on it. Because like I said, there are amazing non-accredited courses, but the only way you're going to know which ones are good and not good is by doing your research. Just by looking at a flyer and saying, oh, we're going to cover this, this and this, and you're going, oh actually that's why I want to learn. And then you go, okay, I'm going to pay my money, pay whatever you need to look into a bit further. Like you did actually call them up, ask them questions by and that's why all of my students I say don't even, even when I'm teaching them, I say don't take what I say as Gospel as I said in stone because this industry things change so quickly because they just question everything you hear. Even if someone has been in industry for 20 I've been in industry for 18 years this year, but I still learn from people who are coming fresh into the industry as well as people who've been there for a long time and just because I've been here a long time doesn't mean I know everything and whenever someone tells you questioning, I say if they can give you a purpose or a reason behind what they're telling you and I just say this because this is the way to do it or this is how I was taught, then it's not really information you want to be paying attention to. So what are the things where everything is very subjective, everything is very individualized and we have a coach she go on to, that's what they should be teaching is, okay, this is a set of tools. This is information that will help you build your skills. But until you get in front of a live person, you have no idea what's going to work and how they're gonna respond to what you're learning. So the only way to know is by trying see what happens and adapt and adjust by saying that, oh, this is like the best exercise to learn for muscle or fat loss. Go Away and do this and you don't question it, just do it. That's just ignorance. I think it's like that's just tightening someone's way without actually learning more about it or researching and questioning it. And like I say this stuff, I used to teach it like 1617 years ago. I look back now and I cringe. Oh, I used to teach, I got, oh my God, I can't believe I told people that. And that's why I believed at the time. It's because always in that same mindset over done my level three, I've done a few policies, I know a lot. So I don't really need to keep upscaling myself. I say, I know what I need to know. People just need to do what I tell them pretty much and right. Looking back now, I can't believe I did that. Now let you question everything. Even when I teach, I'll tell people the question, they questioned me. If suddenly you were in like[inaudible] you don't agree with question at best to bite it. There's no right or wrong. And that's the thing. Everything's gonna be individualized to the individual. So what I say, work for me or my client doesn't mean it's going to work for you or your client. Like I can teach you the tools, your job is, is use them and adapt based on the results you get.

Speaker 2: 9:56

That's awesome. And now, so what are some of the check boxes besides calling and asking about the program that someone could look at in terms of maybe the material that's being presented? What boxes can a novice trainer, someone that's new into the field say, okay, well I called, they said this is alright. They said this trainer has so-and-so background. What else could they look at in terms of material if the

Speaker 3: 10:20

trading provider with the coals for VOD LLC provides like some of the content of the course, obviously not all of it, but at least gives an overview of what's going to happen. Even I like to speak to some of the students who've been on the course in the past. I thought that's one of the best ways to kind of get a feeling for what goes on in the course and what you're likely to learn and speak to a few different types of students who've gone on it in the past. Like for me, if anyone asks me what it's like and they want to know firsthand experience of past them on details of students who are, no, they've already said that's okay for people to contact them, speak to them about it because then they get a phone hand speak to somebody who's actually been trying to sell the course so they get the actual feedback from a live person who's been there, done it, paid for it, spent the time to do it. I think that's a bit of a long process to do that, but I think it's quite good process to do it. I say no, you can't speak to any of our students or we can't give you any of this information. That's a bit of a red flag to say that like, okay, what you hide in y for me as a student, if I went on a course and someone said the g you mind if the studio wants to join the course, but I don't really know much about it. Can you speak to them and tell them your experience and like, yeah, definitely like[inaudible] really have a problem with that. If they do then for me that's a red flags. I know. Why wouldn't you want to talk about it? Why wouldn't you want your students to talk about it? All good courses will be training providers. We'll have testimonials, whether it'd be written a video, they'll have some people in the course would be up to talking about it, sharing their experience. Even some points, like I, I've had students who have been on a couple of related courses from other providers in the past, whether it's online or face to face and we haven't had a great experience, but I still want to learn more about it and I just worry about pain so I'll offer them. This is on a case by case scenario, I'll them and said, look, come on the course if at the end that you don't learn anything if you think it's not as been worthwhile that my friend Amanda puts his money. Yeah, but that's the thing. I always say you've got a pretty tricky got it. You put the trust in the other person. So, and again, since we, from someone who's been on, again, multiple courses before, pretty much the same information I learned another, okay, fair enough. You didn't learn what he wants to announce or what didn't be your expectations, so here's your money back. And that's kind of the thing. It's like trying to, providers should be scared of doing that because I believe that what we deliver, I believe we do that. We've had great feedback. Yeah, we had constructive feedback, we've had great feedback and it's all helped us improve that course. But if someone's really wants to sign up with you, but they're really apprehensive because of by experience and given a worksheet where they can try it before they buy it type of thing because 99% of the time people will be honest about it and then I will pay you. Yeah, you might get that 1% who tries to sneak away with it. But in the grand scheme of things, it's not big loss. So it's not like nice enough a set of people are doing it one to seven to a like every once in a blue moon. I'm willing to take that risk if it means that this person is going to get a good experience and learn what they want to learn.

Speaker 2: 13:18

That makes total sense man. And it just brings you back to the course that I took with you several years ago and one of the things that really stuck with me that I haven't seen trainers do much of here is the functional movement test, some type of a functional assessment before programming for an actual client. It's funny because there are so many trainers. When I see them take on a new client, you don't see them do that and you know they'll use the mundane excuse of, oh no, it's all right. I'm assessing them through the first PT so to speak. And in my mind I'm like, that's a load of shit. You know, you know, they have, they had their trainer on the treadmill for the first 15 minutes and the first PT, it's like, dude, you could have them doing a functional movement tests, assess if they can even squat, do a hip hinge, the normal movements that you took us through a couple of years ago. And it just, it really stuck with me. And I don't say you have to do the functional movement the way you taught it, but some type of assessment needs to be done. So what's your overall impression on some of the trainers? I would say, and I'm not just gonna call it the trainers in Kuwait, but I'll also call it other trainers in the GCC. What's your overall impression? Cause the trainers in Dubai, I was there a week ago and I went to different gyms and it was almost a level up, so to speak with some trainers. We have really good trainers in Kuwait, but in Dubai, like it was like it was jumping into a pool full of sharks versus being the big fish in the pond, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 3: 14:41

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And like I say, I used to be one of those trainers, but I did not agree about assessment. I did not assessment why they was[inaudible] military style is based them into the ground by shall I leave the gym crawling on the hands and knees and then you smile guy. Yeah, I've had a good whiteout and now again looking back at that hell was I thinking it's like seriously that was like so old school thinking but that's how I was taught and that's how everyone around me done it. So that's for me that was right at the time. But now I know better. I like and ever since implementing[inaudible] with clients many years ago, right. The experience that they receive and like the results they get on a different level. And like I said, whether you do functional movement screening or any type, it doesn't matter what you do, just to touch some type of movement screening. Like I don't use the functional screening anymore just cause it was too long for me. So just with the real course that we run, we've kind of created a new[inaudible]. That's a big two. That's shorter and quicker to do, but it's still kind of implements kind of all areas of the body in terms of movements. And that is so important. Like if you don't know how someone moves on how your client moves, how can you program for them or how to know what is right and wrong for them. And that's the thing. There's no right or wrong exercise. This is what a run for an individual, one exercise might be good for someone, but the same exercise might be completely wrong for someone else at that time. And their training doesn't mean I can never do it. It just means they're not prepared or ready for it yet. So that's where that movement assessment, and like you said, 14 there are a lot of trainers who don't do that. It's still stuck in that old school mindset of everything's got to be sweat, sweat, sweat, physical, physical, gotta train. I'm gonna make a white card because I need them to renew with me. I need to pay me, I've got to hit my numbers, all this stuff. And it just becomes very frustrating, especially before when I used to teach the transition therapy course, going into clubs and knowing people who've done it and then let's see them use none of it, less than 20% of the people going through that course for actually using the testing music, any of the information they learned and that was good that someone's using it, but I had that smaller percentage. It's very depressing to think that that client's paying a lot of money for a service that are not getting, and I know obviously it's especially in the Middle East, is very different from the rest of the world when it comes to personal training. It can be your client's best friend, train them hard and they'll be happy and pay you all day long. But the problem is is I go through the same cycle of I guess some results get to play with. Something happens, they leave and they go back again. I ended up stepping back, so it's just a vicious cycle. I keep going round and around that around and the whole point of assessing from the beginning, getting someone to understand their body, how they move or longevity or longer term results. If I do leave you, will you leave them? I forgot to continue doing what they're doing. They shouldn't need you looking over the shoulder, changing their program, changing their diet, whatever it is. They should be able to do everything themselves and that's what's not happening and it's, I think if all trainers just implement a basic testing process into there, obviously it's a bit different implementing a testing process, but then knowing how to take the results from that test and program for them and that's kind of the difference as well. You could do a test and go, okay great, this is you move, this is what's not working. Okay, let's go on and carry on with our normal training session. What do you do with those results? So we say as two pronged type of attack there already. So it's just adding in the telling sequence. But then knowing what to do with the results from that is knowing how to program effectively for that individual. That's like a tailor made program that is going to help benefit them, get them the result they want in the safest manner possible while improving any areas of liabilities, stability, pain, whatever the issues are. So I've just, I do see more and more trying to starting to do it, especially when they go on courses like Rehab Training RCTC or RC rehab movements. But there's just, there's a lot of trucks out there compared to the percentage that are actually using it. But just be great to see more[inaudible] start implementing testing prison stage and not think of it as a waste of time or taking time into the session. It's an investment. It's like it's a necessity. It's something that should happen with every single client from day one.

Speaker 2: 18:44

Yeah. No, I mean it makes sense. I mean it's either trainers just don't know or they're just lazy. So yeah, I mean you get a lot of trainers that are lazy. They get their one certification and it's like, all right, that's it. I'm done. I'm just going to coast and kind of train people. And unfortunately that's just kind of a, it's also a vicious cycle that you see within the industry itself. That and mixed up information. Now switching gears a little bit, you had mentioned to me you're starting a new business with your wife Rehab Revolution. Do you want to talk a little bit about that and kind of tell people what's going on with that?

Speaker 3: 19:17

The vitamins I run, the fitness education side of the business is just rehab revolutions. So we run the rap courses and nutrition, the pit lifting recently added in the mindset last three for fitness professionals. My wife deals with the kind of mindset coaching side, the psychology side of it. And what we're doing is we're bringing both those elements together. So we're looking to launch in a yes for the wellness theory and the purpose is to integrate the full bodies that are needed to basically help people reach their true potential and create long lasting results. So there's the physical body, the spiritual body, mental body and emotional police. Most of us tend to work on the physical body. We train, we eat, we massages, whatever, anything that is focused on trying to look better from the outside and whether that's by eating or training. But the problem comes is when you haven't got the other three bodies in check as well. So your emotional states, your mental states in spiritual states, when those four are not in alignment going in the same direction, while you kept what we currently have, we have 80% of people who end up regressing on their results and we got worse from what gains and this is the problem that we faced it. You can be the best coach in the world. You can provide the best assessments, the best training, the best nutrition. But if that person's might say is not correct or not in that right state, it's not going to last. They're going to end up going around. Like we said before, that vicious cycle again. They gotta be one trainer, get good results. Something's going to happen. They're to leave. The train is going to leave. They stopped doing a day stop trading. They stop eating for a while and they get to a point where they put all that way back on and gone backwards to where I want to be and then end up seeking the help of another trainer and goes through the same process again and it's just a never ending cycle and hopefully it's a break that cycle. That's why we kind of created, well the Siri is to integrate those four bodies and it's so situated online education and online country to help people see that it's more about just training and eating. It's about training, eating, breathing, your mental health disparities or health or emotional health. All that tie together is what creates a balanced well outstanding human being pretty much. And that's what we want to do is help people unlock their true potential by focusing on those four bodies

Speaker 2: 21:32

100% and I mean we talk about it a lot on this show that you have to take care of the whole body. One of them is, I mean we had an episode with Reece done and it was all about trying to get into a state of flow. So we dive into things like that. Breathing Reese was, he came in as a breathing expert. We ended up doing a whole episode just on flow cause that's just where the conversation took us and mag. I wish he was on the show because she's all about the breathing, the gut health and she's kind of like our stress terminator at the same time. So it would have been awesome, but she couldn't make this show today. But I mean I think that's great. And you brought up a great point that I wanted to ask about too. Right now Kuwait, we have the whole buzzword of coach before it was trainer, now it's turned into quake coach, I'm coaching you or come take my coaching class. How is it in Dubai? Is it around the same or has that buzzword died already? Or is it just picking up like it is kind of here.

Speaker 3: 22:26

They get coaches being used more and more across. I think, well obviously I'll see it across the Middle East as much as I know as much in terms of back in the UK or America or anywhere like that. But there's a very big difference between a trainer and a coach. And this is what I think if it is professional needs to understand what do you want to be? Do you want to be a trainer that's going to last probably two years in the industry, get fed up because you're burning yourself out by working every hour under the sun to get the money you want to earn or you want to be a coach that educates people, that helps people, that serves people to the point where they don't need you anymore. And that's the difference. The trainer with someone who will design a program and take you to their program regardless of what's happening. So you'll come in and you go, oh, that exercise is causing me pain. I can't do that exercise. Okay, we'll just push that to the side and move on with the rest of the program. Let's just not do that. Okay. A coach would basically step back and go, okay, why is that happening? Okay, what is happening to you? Like why are you feeling that Pi? Why are you feeling that discomfort? Extending what called you? Do it. So the whole point of a coach is to educate a person is educated like clients in everything that I want to get in, whether it's physical body, then nutrition. Again, the psychology, the mindset, and to the point where when they do leave them or when the client leaves them, they are set up to be able to continue what they're doing and helping themselves without falling back and going, oh well what do I do? I've got no one to help me. That isn't what they should be doing. So a lot of people call themselves coaches, but unless you're actually educating the clients, instead of just training them, they go home and come back again and train them again. That's what the trainer does is train them out of, I tried my today. That's pretty much it. But the orders is shaped pretty much when it's like when the train is no longer, you can try to find all the client leads or move. So something happens like it shouldn't happen. It's like when a manager leads a business, if the business still runs, it's still approved with the manager. Not that they've done a good job if the business falls apart because the manager's not there. They've done a very bad job because they ate the software, not at all them. The same as what trainers do. They might require client reliant on them, which I shouldn't do. Various educated clients to be more independent, to take responsibility for what they're doing. Once that starts happening, we shifted face industry in some sort of quality being offered in the service. It's just going to go through the roof.

Speaker 2: 24:40

Well, I mean with all these different modalities that are coming out, I mean for instance, I just started in crossfit as a masters trying to be a masters athletes so to speak. And before my trainer I would call my trainer, he rehabbed my right shoulder back from a a pretty bad labor and tear a couple of years ago and he was my trainer per se. And then when I became an athlete and I started trying to take crossfit a little bit more seriously, that's when I started to refer to him as my coach. Now, the only reason why I'm trying to divide this line so to speak is because in my opinion, I was a baseball coach for like almost 15 years or more. And if you confuse me between a trainer and a coach, I'd be like, no, I'm a coach. Because in my venue you're teaching a skill that is put onto a playing field. Whereas now I think the line's a little blurry between a trainer and a coach. And I think the coaching aspect has turned into such a Buzzword, you know, throughout the Middle East. And I mean, I see what you're saying and yeah, you have everyone coming out saying, oh, I'm a coach, I'm a coach, and my job is to teach people how to do this, to do that. In reality, should the coach be working towards a goal with their client? And if they're not working towards a goal, then are they just pegged as a trainer? What's your opinion on that?

Speaker 3: 25:53

Whether you're trading your work coach, you should always be working towards a goal with the client. Differences is once they reach that goal, what's the next step is like can they then carry on without you, do they still need you and ITC. Even the trainer, they say the difference between a trainer and a coach t teaching a skill train. They should be teaching the life skills about how to 100% yes, I had full body awareness in terms of more awareness around your food and what you're taking in and your energy levels and how to balance everything and try. There is not to just teach someone how to lift away or perform an exercise that's not teaching a skillset. Teaching a skillset is helping people understand their body and their mindset in regards to training and nutrition. Because the thing is I use baseball coaches are, you're not going to be with those athletes for the rest of the life, so you need to teach them skills that are able to perform without yep. That's what training they should be doing as well. But a lot of them don't. They keep the clients so reliant on them that the client just has no idea what to do when they're on their own and that's where the problem arises. Regardless whether they're a trainer or a coach and the title's just a title, it means nothing. It's what the person actually does is their mindset is are they driven, are they close minded? Are they focused on I'm the trainer. Do I say on a one doing or they coach or where they can say, okay, it's not working or see what your feeling or the way you're feeling shouldn't be happening. So we need to step back, take a look at what's going on and let's see where we can make changes. Make adaptations that improve because it's a learning experience, not just for the client but for the coach as well. And that's the thing. Just because your card doesn't mean you know everything, like you're going to come across a lot of people that are going to literally stump you like what the hell is going on? And that's going to test your skills coach to step back and go, okay, what's going on here? I can, I'm not used to this. So what's my solution for this? And that's the difference between coaching and training is like coaches are more open, they should be more open minded. They should be not ego driven. They should know that they can learn from anyone regardless whether they're fresh in the industry and know pretty much nothing compared to the most experienced person in industry. There is no barrier to learning. And that's what proper coach, that's someone who really knows that they can learn from any situation and find the solution at any problem that arises. A trainer, which is find a problem and everything that arises

Speaker 2: 28:08

a hundred percent man. I mean I think you nipped it right in the by when you talked about skillsets, like that's what people should really look for is someone teaching them a skill set. Now, I mean looking at the industry and especially the online coaching industry, you guys are going to have an online business and everything and online has been booming. So how can you tell nowadays the good online coaches or trainers or facilities versus the bad ones? Can you offer any insight from that perspective or is it still kind of like tough? Like when you're looking at like a website to buy something off of it and you look at all the reviews and it's Kinda like see 20 reviews and you're like, oh, okay, this looks legitimate and then you buy something, you never get the product. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3: 28:47

Exactly. Oh again, there are a few things to look out for. Like I'm online. If you're not going online, your business would die as pretty much as simple as that. That's why online is the way things are going and everything and then she's going to be online because it's convenient. It's easy, accessible and you can do it any way. And a lot of people type, just type the head, the pace have online coaching. I've seen it loads of times on Facebook posts and farmers and our post something about online course and I just rip it apart. So you, how can you do this online? If you can't learn something online, that's your problem, not the course that's about you. You can learn anything from a book online from a person. Yeah. Obviously being in front of a person, having that support is always because you ask questions, but most online courses come with a support network that allows you to ask questions and speak to someone. So they've got that ability there and obviously you can look at testimonials and stuff as well to see the credibility of the program, which is good. CIU,[inaudible] neos or the college of Brits and testimonials and yeah, like you said, that could be fights. If I could test the by the just shove it up on your website, but the thing is is one thing you'll notice is amongst credible educators and what I'm incredible, that means they're recognized by an accrediting body. I'm incredible. As in the day we'll give so much free value. Information is ridiculous, right? If you've got someone who's trying to sell you everything down to the last word, that credibility has gone out the window. I should be providing c value free content by Nazi. Not all their courses, but everything around it. They should share that content allows you to try stuff and to see if it works and to see if you gel with that brand, with that company. So with that could be podcasts, it could be ebooks, could be videos, could be short courses I could give out and send out to you, which is something that we're working on as well. With that new brand is we're working on so much free content to give out. People can actually go away and use whether they've got an injury or they've got a mindset issue where they're trying to deal with the internal conflict that's going on with ebooks and videos and all stuff like that. So we want people to try it. What we do is I get back to that concept, try before you buy it is this is what we offer, this is what we do. Here's a little taste for a bit. Give it a go, try it, see if it works, and then start getting results from the free content. And guess what they do? They buy more. We want to give you money at that point, you know I don't want to give you money. That's the same as[inaudible] by feeding[inaudible] past the training. It's the same thing is trying to try to sell everything. It's not about doing anything unless I get paid for it. I said, okay, that's why your business sucks. Give free value information. When people see benefit and start to see results from that information, they're going to keep coming back to you and they're going to buy from you and that's because money is a byproduct of what you deliver, what you offer. Like if you deliver quality service and you're serving people and you're giving valuable information, then you're going to come in, you're going to be giving you money. If all you care about is making money, that's a very short term approach and your business will not last very long and this is what I'm saying. Nothing you do for free is for free. Does that make sense? Even during our tracing ebooks or training videos and it's all stuff we're going to give out for free, but it's not for free because it's going to have an effect where it draws people into us. It builds that loyalty and that following. But people, okay, I've tried our stuff and they believe it so they've got a base they're going to buy from us and that's where it comes down to what people need to realize is if you're going to do online based courses. Yeah, some people are like, oh mighty one, some of my sign up and they go, actually I don't really connect with this person on the screen. So they might not enjoy it. And that's the thing. You can't really control that side of it. So some people connect better with others, try to continuously learning different things. When it comes to Rehab. With nutrition, I've learned certain things while I've watched videos and like, oh my God, this guy's boring as hell. The videos where I go, oh my God, this is so engaging. Like everything he says makes sense. Like it connects with me, sticks with me, I'll remember it. And that's the thing that you're not going to really dive into. And this is what providing this free content is also valuable because people get to know you, people get kind of a connect with you so they know when they're going to buy calls from you that it's going to be quality, it's going to be you teaching it, it's going to be good information and they're going to be able to use that and they're going to get good results for them. So any online educator, if they're not providing you with like value free content and we want

Speaker 2: 33:09

it makes total sense, man. I mean, and I think like now these days, I see so many people trying to sell shit on Instagram and it's like in your face, it's in your face by this program, by this program. And you get these online coaches that are just popping up and they're like, oh, buy this, buy this. All right. But then when you go on their page, they're not offering anything for free. When in reality, a lot of the best coaches that I've seen so far online are some of the best salesman I've seen online are the ones who are just like, here you go, take this, it's free, free, free, here's a two week program, try it out, let me know. And then you're like, all right, that works. Let me just go to the next thing and try this out. And it's really turning into more of an exchange of ideas with the customer so to speak versus versus just the sales pitch. I mean my background is marketing, which was, that was old school marketing where it was placed price, product promotion. Whereas now you're looking at things where places turned into, you gotta be everywhere. These are the four ease of marketing. I did my thesis on it and it was experience instead of the product. It was evangelism. You want your people to be evangelistic about you and about what your brand is all about. You want to be every place and you really want that exchange. And I think, I love seeing you talk about this because I know you're going in that direction. And even when I was a student of yours when I took that course and it was great because I did email you a couple of times and you got back to me right away, I followed you on Instagram. You had a lot going on and you're right. I mean it's just, it's sad though because there are some really good online coaches out there, but it's being spoiled by the junk that's coming out right now. I mean, I don't know if you're aware of the Kuwait scene so to speak, but now it's like everyone's turning into an online coach. Everyone's developing online programs and it's like, dude, seriously, like we're giving out online programs, we're giving out an eight week online program and it's a starter package for the guy that sits behind the desk all day. That's what it's meant for and I don't want any money for it. Shit, the information is out there already. It's just a different way. Right?

Speaker 3: 35:04

Exactly. Exactly, and that's why I said that it's about everyone's putting out all these generic programs and courses about gaining muscle, losing fat or whatever advertising these days. But the problem is is for anyone, it used to be a common sense coach to Google. Guess what? You can find hundreds and hundreds of those exact programs for free. And that's the thing is like, well if you're going to go into online coaching or online education, you've got to think past providing information to people because now with the Internet, as big as it is, we can get all the information for free or you can get all the information is taught in university degrees on the Internet for free. You just gotta know where to look. I went to poly together so you can say, and sorry, it's not about the information that you give, it's about the experience your customers get. It's about community and that's the thing is like we try to do that a lot. We have revolution is like you said, if people ask questions, what should we try to get back to them as quick as possible because again, we don't want them waiting. I know firsthand when you're waiting for like a week for a response from an email. So I are just frustrating and you just want to like strangles appointments. So it's having that experience where yeah you've given the information but you can get the information anyway is what do they do? That information is what is their support system and that's where the, what we try to do is provide that support system. So I go through education and if they go through and find that they still a bit stuck somewhere. Yeah, contact us, we'll then take you through. We got go see different options for that. So whether they want more of a personal support or just a general support, but a lot of the education we're creating is basically works. That's the whole point. We want to educate the general population to a point where if I do decide they need professional help with any go to a coach or trainer or whatever, at that point they know more than what my trainers know now and that will force trainers to upscale themselves and educate themselves to a higher standard. And if we get all Java population in doing this is going to basically weed out the average trainers. The ones who don't really care about serving people and really care more about making money and it's going to push the rest of them to become mostly much best to train as much higher quality coaches because they're going to have to educate themselves because they can't go into a client with a session with a client and go, I can't, we're going to do this. You're gonna do this. And the client guys about know that that's what I've been doing, that like I come see you for something better, like something I can't hear myself. And that's what we want to do is, so instead of concentrating on fitness professional, you just want to educate everyone because penetration rates in parcel trading is very low single digits. So there's a huge population out there. They know or what like friends have told them, order from men's health magazine or from some online sites, Saudis, generic buys exercises that may or may not be right for them, may or may not cause them harm. So education doesn't need to be complicated. And I mean lots of stuff that works is simple. But like you said, the I social media, Instagram influences and they're all making things more complicated than they need to be. So if we can just pile the bullshit and get down to the basics again, that's what works. Once people start seeing that, it's like Hallelujah, the light switch has gone on so people start thinking differently. And so just that's the goal is educate as many people as we can and offer as much value as we can. And that's why we offer like one of the reasons we started up by a startup, we have revolution and we have these courses at the moment, not the live courses is we offer everyone free refreshers. So once I've gone on a course, I can come back on the same course as many times as they like for your charge because we know that it's impossible to learn 100% of everything that you've learned in those one, two or three days. And because of the feedback we get, we keep changing. We keep improving the courses so they come back on in six months time. They might have a completely new structure. There might be new concepts that they didn't learn the first time round. And this is the thing about giving back is I, I've never agreed with charging someone for the same course they've already done. Maybe like an admin fee to rent like a venue or something. Fair enough to cover the costs. But in most cases we don't need to worry about that. So allowing people to come back home for free allows them to carry on embedding that information and learning anything new that we added to the course. And that's what you want. We want people to keep coming back.

Speaker 2: 39:29

Well yeah man, it looks like you guys are gonna put the dudes that invented the Shaker way in the Bosu ball out of business soon. I mean it's right now it's like how complicated could you make the exercise when in reality split squats, they'll work perfectly. And the bare basics, you know, the big five are still the king of exercises, not frigging jumping on a Bosu ball the Shaker way. In a friggin band in the other hand. So, so you guys look like you're going to put all these phones. He's out of business, which is pretty cool cause I'd love to see that. One more question before we head out here. What would be the ideal amount of time a trainer should put in before becoming an online coach? I mean you can't necessarily, in my opinion go and say, all right, you know what? I'm going to do my training, I'm going to take a training course, get my certifications, do all this stuff, and then I'm just going to jump on online coaching before actually coaching people in person. Because being a baseball coach, there's more that I've learned from being on the field with kids and with teenagers and just coaching them through movements and throwing and hitting and everything that I wouldn't know if I didn't do that in real life versus trying to just do it right away online. So what sort of the timeframe or like young aspiring online coaches should do or a way they can

Speaker 3: 40:44

do it? Again, the answer I'll always love to give is, it depends on our staff. We say that all the time on our shared duty. We always say there's no right or wrong. I like to say you're going to get people who probably naturally just naturally gifted at in biking, engaging with people and being able to kind of get their point across in an easy manner for anyone one stand so they might be able to go into online coaching and kind of splashes right away. But I still, I believe in exactly what you said. Like for me, I would never be doing what I'm, what we're about to do now if I didn't have all these previous years of literally life face to face experience with a client because by doing that help you to understand a lot about that. People, about their mindset, about their bodies, about how they move, what works, what doesn't work and it's hard to get that on an online coaching session. If you're brand new and you've never dealt with a live client before, I actually opposed to the person. Like I say, it depends. I would say you would give you a good edge by getting experience working in a gym or working freelance or working for PTG or whatever you prefer, but literally training clients face to face to help understand them because again, there's one thing that you can't do online that you be face to face. This. I experienced that atmosphere that energy client feels and that's one thing is once you learn about and you get and you can't understand, it's easier to understand what goes on. Then like when you see them online, because by the three that body language, through the way they talk, the tone of voice, she gets to understand the kind of site they're in. The Hedge Pfizer, if you've never had that experience before, live with someone, it's very hard to know what's going on and you might just miss it and go, okay, let's crack on, let's go on with way. And instead of an actual training session, I might need more of like a friendly chat. They might need more of[inaudible] psychology session because obviously qualified for that, but they might just need someone to speak to his event. So they might need something different than a physical training session. And that's the thing is also training is not about physical training. It's not about training the body, it's about understanding the person, understanding the mindset, the state body, the stress levels, how they're thinking, how they're acting. Because all that is going to affect their performance and the results. And the best way to learn that is by life. I suppose. They are on the floor, speak to people, train them, and that's the quickest way to learn that in my opinion. Obviously some people might have a different opinion, but for me it's really helped me understand that side of it massively. I would not definitely not be going into what I'm going to be doing now with my wife. If I didn't have that previous experience in the past, there's no way I would even be attempting that. But like I say, everything was different. So just kind of based on themselves, if I feel confident they'll still do that. I would still say try and get some face to face clients as well as online. If you're starting out just to give you that kind of that experience in both fields, but I'll tell you, you can't have you especially today help

Speaker 2: 43:35

a hundred percent man. I love it. Love that answer, Dude. Now, so how can people get in touch with you or how can they find Rehab Revolution? Is your site up and running? Is it just on Instagram right now? So I'm sure when we drop this episode hopefully people can reach out to you somehow.

Speaker 3: 43:51

Yeah, yeah. Like I say, yeah, about the moment they can reach us through by for the fitness education side of our business, we have revolution, we're on Instagram acts, we have dot look revolution or our website is rehab revolution online.com it's not like the book on mindset side of it, the mindset psychology coaching, which is more white side of the business of the Bible, which is[inaudible] like sparks, so on. Instagram has pies and lot spots. So yeah,

Speaker 2: 44:18

I'm just going to pick this up to end the show. Awesome. Jonathan, thanks for all the information. Really appreciate it buddy. I hope to bring you back on the show. Hopefully with your wife next time. Maybe next time. Next time when I'm out in Dubai, dude, let's hook up and have a real live interview. I think that would be even better. So thank you very much for the information. I mean, dude, you are on fire in this episode. I think a lot of young trainers really need to listen to this to sort of gauge where they're at and where they're going to take their careers later on. Thank you very much, sir. I probably, you're welcome. Thank you for having me on. I like to say when you're in Dubai, let's get together live one.

Speaker 1: 44:55

Thanks for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please head over to iTunes to subscribe rate and leave a review. You can also find us on Instagram at the Project Kuwait. Thank you. And join us next time.